> can you please stop the war already
Нет.
>What's up?
Hey. I'm wondering how Finnish television describes the war. Is it a Putin's war or it says that Russians support it?
I'm afraid that in current events average Russians would be treated as Nazis in WW2. I believe Russians are hostages of Putin's regime and Western propaganda doesn't acknowledge this.
Stop nagging. You're from a wealthy country. Just dig yourself a bunker and train hard to survive in the forest.
Also you can put some nasty bitches there to turn them into dutiful wives like Russian national hero Viktor Mokhov.
Our president already did exactly same thing you know. The only difference - he prefer very young boys.
No more prostitutes in St. Petersburg for Finns without a visa
>I believe Russians are hostages of Putin's regime and Western propaganda doesn't acknowledge this
Majority of the west thinks this anon. Do not think anyone hates you.
когда мы закончим денацифицировать украину мы придем к тебе, жди фашист, ответишь за ленинград
Едь в Казахстан или Монголию, там Китай не даст тебя в обиду.
>better tomorrow
If you are outside Russia, your tommorrow is already better than mine.
Fuck off, nazi scum.
Situation became darker. There's no chance for Ukraine not to become occupied and for us - not to fall into the stone age. We are in full isolation from other world under Putin's amo, but instead of ukrainians not in bombshells. Still waiting, when he'll drink enough people's blood and stop it, but it wouldn't become untill most of Ukraine will be rouined and russian piecefull peoples will be death. This is times, when noone can change anythig. We should just try to relief this times with less damages for our mentality and phisical health.
I don't have an television. Or I do have, but I fed up to the mainstream media like a decade ago or so, when I reached adult age. So I basically just watch Netflix, Hbo, etc. etc. without news or adds.
But I can tell you about the recent news I read. Basically the situation is this: Dead people everywhere in Ukraine, both sides taking horrible casualties. Bombs. Bombs. More bombs. Russian's getting basically deleted from the west in all possible levels and all things. And then: Putin threats with nukes. Nukes?! Fear. Fear. Fear. NATO? NATO? NATO? <- those are kind of the headlines, basically. After checking the headlines I turned off the website being anxious. There's nothing else to be found right now. Finns might be kinda sensitive about this kind of shit happening, because everyone remembers the war where we were left alone at first, and then we had to invite nazis to help us fight our land back, and well, you know how it went down..
This might sound silly, but even that we have studied to have the top 1-2 (depending on year) most free media, you can get - in a strange way - better picture from Finnish imageboard, because of various sources etc. coming together. Anons are the bests legion of journalists. THAT IS If you just are smart enough to avoid Russian trolls (the paid ones) & NATObots (the people being way too afraid of nuclear war to make any rational decisions) affecting your thinking and falling for propaganda. And what the overall sentiment of the people seems to be, Russian soldiers are being depicted either as innocent little children soldiers who had no idea they would end up in Ukraine, or that they were going to fight in a war, and then the other side is clips of Russians shooting & bombing civilians and leader of Wagner being posted with nazitattoos on. That's not a good look.
BUT! Then the Russian civilians. And well, I ofc live in my own bubble, and atleast everyone I know IRL realizes that it's only the Putin going insane, and the sympathy goes also to Russian people because they cannot do shit to stop him. I could imagine most of the people being frustrated over Russians not stopping their leader, without realizing fully that you literally can't do shit, that's not how it goes in Russia. You either be silent or get fucked in the ass in prison if you try to organize yourselves against Punya. (If I got this right yesterday?) If people understood this better, I'd say the will to sanction you would be much lesser. Then again, western leaders must've realized that times ago already, because otherwise they would've helped you already somehow. Now they are trying to set maximum pressure to you to get rid of him - how - I don't know. It's up to Russians. West is hopeless and they see some hope in your desperation, if you understand what I mean. They are hoping for you to make a revolution, because west can't do it for you. Basically the same situation than in North-Korea, but you can still be contacted by us.
That is also the message I wanted to get through yesterday. You must understand that no one of us views you as enemy, and I hope you don't view us as an enemy. We would help you, if your leader didn't have fucking nukes. We know he is trying to paint us and democracy as an enemy, and all things related to west, but nah. Everyone would welcome Russian people as partners, I could imagine. Russian dictators are IMPOSSIBLE to deal with, and without democracy and laws associated with it on institutional level, it's basically impossible to build foundation for partnership. That's why he wants you to think that western democracy is the most evil thing ever, because it's his worst evil and his thugs. Basically we share the same enemy, him.
I wouldn't worry about that too much about imago loss either. Putin doesn't have many years left (hopefully) and it's easy to pour everything on him. For the war criminals idk. Not expecting a good future for them.
I just wouldn't like to see shit escalate..
Lol, I stated this already yesterday: you will be the most rich people on the planet, once you get your shit together. You have vast resources and money associated with them should belong to people, not just Oligarchs. And there will be who-knows-how-fucking-much more once arctic melts. That's why I think Punya wants you to think democracy is the enemy, because of his friends won't get to steal from you anymore. Did I get this right?
I know how to survive forest. I'm a Finn. We live in a forest (literally, our country is like 80% forest and rest r lakes.)
Never heard of him, had to Google. That's like Russian version of Jammu Siltavuori (he was into much younger tho.)
May I ask how has this affected your ordinary, everyday lives?
What's up with you bruh? Don't you guys have your own aib or something? Why even bother to shitpost here?
I don't want to pick up a fight, so I just tell you to read the history - from both sides. If you think we didn't already pay high enough cost for a war we didn't want, but were forced in, I don't know what to tell you. Also: are you sure you would've won the Siege if it wasn't for Mannerheim? Are you sure he didn't betray Hitler, who was despised by Mannerheim? Are you sure, this has nothing to do with the fact that Stalin didn't continue the war with us?
There are no nazis in Finland. Not even racism. They are the 2 worst crimes there is on a social level. If you even think a racist thought, you have already been judged by people around you, and you live alone a white thrash life for the rest of your life. There are prejudices and stereotypes, but they exist everywhere where there are humans. Especially in your head, it seems.
Btw, is this how Russians secretly think of Finns, or is it just the spirit of anonymous? o_O
How is your NATO voting going on perkele? Do I need to prepare myself for drafting?
I fought with Google translator for hours yesterday, and wrote a longest message I've ever written on imageboards, or anywhere in internet for that matter. World has gone so fucking mad that I had to contact my Ruski-bros to see how you are doing in the middle of all this.
I am afraid of things escalating, so I couldn't have lived with myself if I didn't do even something to stop it. I know this doesn't necessarily help, but there's not much I can do than write to you. If nothing else, I wanted to show some support for the Russian anons.
А ты молодой и красивый мальчик? Можешь пробраться к Путину и убить его во время совместного секса?
Hey Perkele, heed my advice: stock preserved food and get ready for Talvisota 2. Putin will not be sated with just Ukraine.
As I said you yesterday, the war is already going and we can't just escape and say, that nothing has been. The restrictions will be very severe, I can't even imagine. how scary they can be. The West wants at least independent Siberia and no russian nuclear arms. But their ultimate goal is to destroy Russians, like they destroyed Germans. Russia may forever end her existence and russian folk will be genocided and racemixed with niggers. The West will obviously support it, just because they want to bury the russian menace. Yes, we are threat. we are criminals. But we shall not stop the war, to provide the future of united Russia and russian folk.
The Russian-Roman Empire shall be reborn and I want Finland to be on imperial side.
The main thing u should understand - is that overdose of "western help" maked Putin the monster he became now. Cause after ussr fault many american and european "advisers" and "helpers" became here to "help" us. They steel our resources just like Putin's friends do now. And voting for Putin was answer of peoples to them. Putin looked like a real democrat with his speaches about free independent media and many other messages in first times but with army and kgb background. But u can't bite western robber if he made apart in writing laws in your country, so he started to change and avoid laws, saying it's nessesary for any high purpose, higher than the law (just like now in Ukraine). And he didn't met any opposition (cause they were realy tired of poor and weekness) from peoples he started to do it again and again. So he became the real unconctrolable monster and tragedy of one persone became tragedy for full nation. We hope that all sides will learn thiss lesson in future and western "help" will br real help, not just hunt for their profit.
>Btw, is this how Russians secretly think of Finns, or is it just the spirit of anonymous? o_O
Just a local pleb with strong ressentiment, please ignore him. And don't worry, Russia will not attack Finland, we're stuck in Ukraine for years ahead.
Viktor kills no one. He is a family man who was oppressed by degraded society.
>not just Oligarchs
We just lost the power. That people should be shot out long time ago. We ain't no democrats here. We serve a God, a truth, a great good. Democracy isn't in first 50 actually.
If you wanna do me a favor, draft now, go to Ukraine, surrender (I read that Ukrainians pay 5 million rubles to every Ruski soldier that surrenders.) Then seek asulym from Finland, and once we have joined NATO, draft for the wars to come in Somalia for me. Deal? I mean, Finnish army might have even better food (no nukes tho, or, wait, NATO might have a couple.)
Is there a vote? Fuck, I don't even want to know this shit.
Like yesterday public opinion on polls done by media was like 50-50% or so, maybe slighty on favor of it. Before this war the was absolutely no change we would've ever joined.
I'm not that young anymore =( And idk hasn't he dug up in some super-bunker in Siberia already?
That's literally the definition how WW3 starts, trust me. If it hasn't already..
But yeah, umm, I have already started prepping food. Possibly today going to buy iodine tablets for myself & my dog.
I thought Finns were the most cynical country there is, but now I'm forced to rethink this thru. Do you still get vodka atleast from the markets? If it's any consolation, Russians are not the only ones being fucked up right now. I could imagine everyone in the world being little shaky about nuclear war tbh.
the history is clear - you were on the nazis side, and still are since you support the nazi ukr
> everyone in the world being little shaky about nuclear war tbh
There's a solid distance between Putin and the people that are actually responsible for launching the nukes, so, chances are, someone in the higher-ups is going to snap before the order is given. That's what a lot of us hope for at least.
>but now I'm forced to rethink this thru
We reliefed two world wars and two big revolutions here for last 100 years. We loose all we have and our lifes of our brothers and fathers too fast, so we accomplished to live this kind of tough life and not holding to any material things. That's why russians - the most soulfull and most tough people. This is our advantage and the biggest tragedy, cause we sentenced to live that kind of life again and again. This is what I meaned yesterday, when telling u, that killing our brother in Ukrain - is the only kind of redemption for our history could be. Doing that - is just phisical reflection of killing material part of ourselfes to achive catharsis and start to build our nation again from zero point but (I really hope) with learned new history lesson.
Mannerheim betrayed Hitler? Hahah... Mannerheim spent his youth studying in St Petersburg and then he sieged it and starved the people inside. So who betrayed whom?
>>4671388
>Do not think anyone hates you.
Tell this to Germany and some other UN countries. I heard that little by little russians are treated like shit everywhere.
>Do not think anyone hates you.
Tell this to Germany and some other UN countries. I heard that little by little russians are treated like shit everywhere.
Even if the fuckwit decides to press the big bad red button I am 100% sure people who are actually responsible for the nukes won't do it. There is no amount of patriotism or fear of death or persecution that could push a man to take part in basically starting the apocalypse.
I cannot talk for all western politicians, but I can talk for our ex-president Tarja Halonen whom interview I just watched recently. She was our president back when Putin wasn't a dictator. She told in the interview, that back then Putin had said, that he doesn't want to stay in the presidency forever and repeat mistakes of past leaders who didn't want to give up power. I could imagine that the hope you Russians had towards him, western leaders had also. But idk, that's what happens when there's no opposition or free media = no one to help save you from getting corrupt. And power does that to anyone..
I don't believe that west would like to see Russian people dead. Not for one second. They want Putin out and replace him with someone who is actually sane, and let Russians be good sheeplings. Wouldn't it be best for west also for you to BE the west? It's either that or China. Pick your poison, huh?
You might not want that. Please don't even think it. Finns won't ever accept that and as I told yesterday we are the most retarded country there is when war. It will be guerilla war up until the last Finn has died. Or then we just turn into a huge nuclear blast shadow. That's not good.
Also stop telling yourself you be criminals. I want to think positive thoughts about Ruskis. Who knows, maybe in next life I will be respawned in Russia's side.
What are your bets: Will Punya nuke the shit out of Ukraine (with nuclear weapons) if he doesn't get past the defence?
Nah. Democracy is your future. It's already happening, slowly but steadily. I could bet my fortune on this to be true. Why? Because only iq100 dictators don't do that. Iq200 dictators know, that happy and democratic people = the best sheepling in it's final form. You think west wants democracy for us for us to be happy and as free as possible? No, it's because of economics. The happiness and all that comes with is a side effect only.
Most of the people actually don't hate russians but the government of russia meaning putin and lavrov. Most people just hope that the russian population will stand agaisnt their government and not let their children go to war to die for no reason.
I don't talk about war or annexation of Finland. I dont' want it, just because we want your absolute limitless loyalty. After our imperal renaissance, the goverment of your land will sign military and economical alliance with the New Russian Empire. And your nation will sincerly be wanting it. Being under imperial protection is always good. Accept our grace.
> I don't believe that west would like to see Russian people dead
Nobody in the West will say you it, but it's their real secret desire. The financial elite loves bloody human sacrifices. We are just meat for them.
> It's either that or China
Between the West and the China, I chose the worldwide nuclear hell.
> I want to think positive
We are appointed world criminals of 2022. Reality means nothing nowadays. We live in postmodernist society, kek.
Majority of people in panic. Nobody knows how to convince the government to stop the war. I hope army will surrender to save soldiers lives and police will stop to pursue protesters.
>Also can you please stop the war already
Это не война, а демилитаризация. Она скоро закончится.
Запомни: НАТО должно вернуться к границам 1997 года
>I don't want to join NATO and go to fight somewhere in Somalia ffs.
После заявления России о гарантиях безопасности в Европе, и о красных линиях, которые не следует пересекать, даже мысль о том чтобы вступить в НАТО для Финляндии самоубийственна. Вам говорят: уберите НАТО от границ России. Что вы делаете? Вы хотите его продвинуть их вперёд? Вы в своём уме? Запрос о вступлении в НАТО будет самоубийством Финляндии.
I very like democracy, but I like classical, Athenian democracy, with demos. In modern time it will look like in the book "Starship Troopers". Citizen stratocracy will be the best for the New Empire. Robert Heinlein was a big mind.
Also, there a no liberal opposition in Russia, what is not russophobic. Nemtsov was, but he was killed. Katz is awful jew, i will never vote for them.
>Весь мир самоубился, а мы в нем в рай.
>>6715340
Uhm. Maybe it would do good for you to try get outside view from things. Ukrainians saying Russian wagners be nazis, and Russians saying Ukrainian Azov be nazis. I heard that it was presented in Russian media, that even Ukrainian president is a nazi (apparently he is a jew who has had relatives in real nazi death camps.) This just in: Whole globe is turning into one big nazi (source: the propaganda.)
And yeah, sorry about the nazi thing 80 years ago. Not exactly great. But you fucked us up first.
Also, umm, do you really think that CCCP was much better than Nazis? Weren't they both a horrible criminal machines? (Not my intend to offend, but idk how to put this any better)
I repeat: If you care about the truth one bit, read history from both sides. Or then just have an subjective opinion, fuck if I care. (But don't nuke us the moment your media starts to call us nazis please we really aren't and I don't have my iodine tablets yet.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_close_calls
Yeap. Lets hope the history repeats itself when psychopaths trying to start nuclear war. But then again, if it repeats itself too many times, won't there eventually be the one idiot who presses the button? And he doesn't even necessarily choose to press it. He just "obeys the order".
This is something I have thought ALOT about Russians. Like. I get it. Evolving & working thru the errors. But isn't there enough history to provide a better option for this madness already?
That's not the case in Finland, where Russian minority is doing okay. I think (not sure how they dealing with winter depression tho.) On the global level, idk, not atleast somewhat "normal" individuals. The big companies and the richest of Russians might be a little different story tho. I heard some rich Oligarchs super-expensive yacht was sinked by his worker.
Sorry btw if I answer with a little delay, but I'll try to answer everyone!
Uhm. Maybe it would do good for you to try get outside view from things. Ukrainians saying Russian wagners be nazis, and Russians saying Ukrainian Azov be nazis. I heard that it was presented in Russian media, that even Ukrainian president is a nazi (apparently he is a jew who has had relatives in real nazi death camps.) This just in: Whole globe is turning into one big nazi (source: the propaganda.)
And yeah, sorry about the nazi thing 80 years ago. Not exactly great. But you fucked us up first.
Also, umm, do you really think that CCCP was much better than Nazis? Weren't they both a horrible criminal machines? (Not my intend to offend, but idk how to put this any better)
I repeat: If you care about the truth one bit, read history from both sides. Or then just have an subjective opinion, fuck if I care. (But don't nuke us the moment your media starts to call us nazis please we really aren't and I don't have my iodine tablets yet.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_close_calls
Yeap. Lets hope the history repeats itself when psychopaths trying to start nuclear war. But then again, if it repeats itself too many times, won't there eventually be the one idiot who presses the button? And he doesn't even necessarily choose to press it. He just "obeys the order".
This is something I have thought ALOT about Russians. Like. I get it. Evolving & working thru the errors. But isn't there enough history to provide a better option for this madness already?
That's not the case in Finland, where Russian minority is doing okay. I think (not sure how they dealing with winter depression tho.) On the global level, idk, not atleast somewhat "normal" individuals. The big companies and the richest of Russians might be a little different story tho. I heard some rich Oligarchs super-expensive yacht was sinked by his worker.
Sorry btw if I answer with a little delay, but I'll try to answer everyone!
>I very like
так не говорят
Russia is doomed. The word "russian" is doomed now. All that's left for us is to leave the decaying state making up new imaginary nationalities for ourselves trying to get rid of "russian" tag.
>no one of us views you as enemy
Do not count me in
Lets flirt with the idea a bit. Will I get some superpowers being part of the new Empire? Will I get to keep my democracy? And will you give us all the resources your (our) lands would offer? Will you sacrifice the Oligarchs for the sake of our people (so we share the resources in a very christian manner. Only rich people get nothing.)?
Maybe we should be the new leaders. Hmm. Maybe we could unite the Finnish and Russian imageboards, and set a plot to assassinate all of our politicians? I'm kinda liking the idea. But I will not let my country be annexed. And there is only one way Finns would ever accept it. For us to join forces, we will annex you (it's not a real annexation, just a PR-trick.) But you have to show us that you would do the same for us: let go of pride!
Also wait a second. Russophobes inside the Russia? Could you elaborate? Wtf is that?
Will ^this kind of people be banned from the empire, who cannot separate between reality and fantasy of Putin?
Dude, for real, Putin is the only one who haven't yet realized that Russia doesn't have much say in Europe. It just has nukes. Which kind of makes it powerful. But just not in politics necessarily. But don't worry, it's good to be a puppet of someone, if you decide to join forces with EU. :3
Are there many protesting? Is there _any_ hope that the Punya will listen to Russian people to stop the war?
This. I bet this is how it all has gone down: Putin has a strong power-fantasies, and he fires everyone for insulting them. Typical manlet behavior. (Is it legal to say this if I were in Russia?)
They are not our enemy, before they have crossed the border. >:( Or nuked us. Before that I get to keep my hopes of good Ruski bros.
>But isn't there enough history to provide a better option for this madness already?
Try to imagine, that u decided to leave healthy and fit life. U want to have muscles like Shwarzenegger or Coleman. What would be, if u'll try to gain weight like them in first day of your new life? Your bones will be broken and u'lll spent a lot of time again in a bad, trying to recovery and forget about new body for a long time. But if u'll try not to force your progress to fast and accomplish smart principles with many components (food, sleep, training, etc) u'll see a good result after 0.5 - 1 year minimum, but u'll got it and it would be really healthy and fit body, that u will use for a long time.
It's easy to change mind for one person. And u can see this changes, speaking with openminded personalities here and in your online games. But u must understand that the consequences we have now is effect of mentality and activity of 300bln peoples, that live on that territory. All of them have different family history and personal experience (not even talking about dependency from peoples abroad). And changing in mentality of that big amount of human mass could take many years (up to hundreds if nation relieved that big and terrible thing, i told last message). Wars and revolutions - drivers of that changes, but if u move too fast and other people was not ready enough for that, u got situations like we have now - with one more soviet dictator occupying another one eastern europe country and killing our slavian brothers and doing repressions for own peoples. Sad, but it's historical axiom, u cant change this rules.
But good news - is that the progress is pushing us forward anyway. With internet, today wars are not the same like past ones and people's isolation is not the same like it were is soviets, so we have hope to relieve it with less losses and this few years of darkness would be just couple pages in future history books with happy and common end for all the world. We and your government must do all they could for that.
It's something between Finland in XIX century and Finland 1950-1990. Of course, it's independent country without any russofication and governor-generals from Russia (no more bobrikovs). You can stay democratic, but you at least must not support any anti-imperial initiative (and forever forget about NATO and likewise unions). Just because Finland is too close to Petrograd, the capital of the former Empire.
> And will you give us all the resources your (our) lands would offer?
Common market and one currency for the Empire and her allience. Finns are not stupid, they can produce good quality goods, so they won't be low-wage migrant workers.
> Will you sacrifice the Oligarchs
Modern russian oligarchs stole their property, they did not build their factories and plants. Of course we must smash them. The Empire should have mixed economy, China-like, but of course nothing like 996.
> Russophobes inside the Russia? Could you elaborate? Wtf is that?
Yes, they are. Especially among the liberals. Russian ethnos is irreparably sick, because (because of mongols, commies, repressions, orthodox christianity, genetic tendency to be slaves or another fictional shit). So if russians don't support liberals, than it's bad for russians, they
F.e, all russian liberals support obligatory vactination, forced, even "at gunpoint" (yes, it's real citation of Anton Krasovsky, liberal journalist and homo-activist https://zavtra.ru/events/vaktcinatciya_dolzhna_bit_prinuditel_naya_a_budut_otkazivat_sya_pryamo_pod_dulami_avtomatov ). People are as stupid, as sheeps are, that's what liberals think. Although, if russian liberals took a stad against the vaccination, they would get more support. Russian farm-industry is dead, we can't produce good drugs, especially so fast, or goverment is goners and forgers, so we need to take foreign vaccines, or take no vaccines at all. Everyone in Russia thinks like this, but no liberals, lol.
> our goverment
Fix
Don't watch CNN. Watch at least Oliver Stone's film about Ukraine, how the United States brought neo-Nazis to power, who bombed the civilians of Donbass for 8 years, and now they are bombing their civilian infrastructure and people, passing it off as the monstrous crimes of the Russians. But the Russians would never do that, they do not need the blood of a fraternal people. They need to destroy the hotbed of neo-Nazism and extreme Russophobia at their side. The Nazis hide their artillery and multiple launch rocket systems in residential areas, between schools and kindergartens. They know that the Russians will never fire their precision-guided missiles there. Special forces and paratroopers are sent there. If the Russian army pursued the goals that your fake media broadcast, it would raze Ukraine to the ground in two hours. But instead, he acts extremely cautiously and precisely. Unlike the Nazis, who hide behind the backs of their own citizens.
You already told that even in your country still living peolple that remember soviet agression and their children ofcourse too. They compose public opinion too and until this opinion is alive we couldnt have fully good and kind relationship between our countries, and this is after 80 years of that war. Just imagine how strong soviet patterns of mentality in our public just after 30 years of ussr. We just need more time and patience from other world and hard work inside our country.
Do you want to know what we think about it all? To be honest, people are scared. We have no way to stop it. In Moscow and St. Petersburg, where protests are taking place, there is a sea of police. The protests will be suppressed by all possible means, up to the mass use of violence worse than it was in the summer of 2021 in Belarus. No one really doubts that, if necessary, they can begin to use lethal force against the crowd. The Kremlin will go to any lengths to maintain power, even if this "ship" is sinking. They have nowhere to run too. I'm sitting at work and discussing all this with colleagues. No one has even a shadow of a doubt that with serious protests, they can start killing us on the streets. Mutual responsibility rules in the country, so high-ranking security officials also understand that they have no way out of all this. We have nowhere to run from the country, we have been cut off from the world. Nobody wants to fight for sure after what they saw in the telegram. The air smells of mobilization in which we will be sent to slaughter like cattle. In short, the state of many is on the verge of panic and horror. I'm afraid for my mother and I will use every opportunity to get her out of the country. I don't give a shit about myself, I'll come up with something like always.
I see. Well, more power to you, Anon. I've spent some time on foreign boards not only 4chan myself so it's always kinda interesting to see some fresh faces here, kek.
>Also can you please stop the war already
We can not stop war. Putin not listen to our people. And he never listened
Proof
https://www.change.org/p/%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%82%D1%8C-%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B9%D0%BD%D1%83-%D1%81-%D1%83%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B9-2ce0a2d7-b957-4e23-981a-c67a26e2b0b7
>change.org
Did anyone ever listen to this piece of shit useless petition site?
> Are there many protesting?
More likely someone in closer circle of Putin will change anything. People are afraid to get jailed/shot/confiscate of their possessions. Army and police will support government, they show no scent of doubt here. Probably lots of dead soldiers will change their minds.
Yep
https://www.change.org/p/%D1%81%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B9%D1%82%D0%B5-%D1%81%D0%B1%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B1%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BA-%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BD-%D0%B4%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D1%83%D0%BF%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%BC-%D0%B4%D0%BB%D1%8F-%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BF%D1%8B%D1%85
https://www.change.org/p/%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%BE-%D0%B7%D0%B4%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%BE%D1%85%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%8F-%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%B9%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B9-%D1%84%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%B8-%D0%B7%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B3%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%80%D1%83%D0%B9%D1%82%D0%B5-%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BF%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%82-%D0%B4%D0%BB%D1%8F-%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%B8-%D0%BB%D1%91%D0%B3%D0%BA%D0%B8%D1%85-%D0%BD%D0%B5-%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%BF%D1%83%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B5-%D1%81%D0%BC%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%82%D0%B8-%D1%80%D0%B5%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%BF%D0%B8%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B2
Hi, fellow Finnish Anon.
First of all, I am personally grateful for your support. Many rational people need it in such dire time.
Actually, the war and the sanctions didn't hit us with full strength yet. We, ordinary people, are only starting to realize what is going on and how it is gonna affect our lives. As a "military obligated" person, I fear being thrown into the meat grinder occuring in Ukraine. If I were to choose between war, prison, and living somewhere deep into the country, I would never choose the former. It is not my war, it is Путин's and his military cohort's war.
As of what awaits us in the future, I don't think we're getting worse until Kazakhstan gets sanctions as well. Right now, sanctions against Russia are easily ignored through Kazakhstan's customs. After that happens, however, I think we may expect to suffer from empty shops and markets - empty electronic shops at least - because Путин's plan of replacing imported goods with our own ones was an obvious failure.
By the way, Anon, have you ever thought of what benefits western politicians and businessmen(same thing lol) are getting from the Russian government? I don't actually think that the West really gives any single fuck about the Russians. Well, about anyone except their families and bottomless pockets. I despise not the former and I do despise the latter. Our only hope is our people, and our people are dispersed and unwilling to build a strong, united society.
Thank you once again for your support. It's nice to talk to someone outside the CIS and NATO bubble. Best wishes.
>just start revolution
Westerners really think that we never didn’t think about it? You think pinya didn’t prepared? We have, at least, A FUCKING MILLION semi-military cops here with fucking rocket launchers and flamethrowers. If we try to overthrow fuckers from kremlin they will do same shit that they do to our ukr-bros. Heve, have a read. We are fucked.
https://ria.ru/20170425/1493110957.html
https://m.lenta.ru/news/2021/04/14/granati/amp/
https://www.svoboda.org/amp/29071245.html
I just wanted to leave this two pics here. The US, the leading power in NATO, is hypocritical to the core. Unparalleled liars, thieves, murderers. No country is innocent but no country can compare to the US in that regard, except for the UK maybe. A country of war criminals
The US goes around the world shaking its fist at any country that, according to them, violates human rights. Coincidentally, it always happens to be some country with either oil/gas or other resources that the US is interested in. Whereas, in the US proper, hundreds of thousands of native born American citizens are homeless and without access to shelter. The US doesn’t care a single but about the human rights of these people dying in hundreds every night on the streets of American cities . See for example: https://www.businessinsider.com/san-francisco-homelessness-cruel-un-human-rights-report-2018-10 - after this report came out, the US left the UN Human Rights council.
For fuck's sake, why I should care about US now?
You americans are always so weird. You don't have to go around telling that the americans committed warcrimes when people are talking about a whole different country and it's situation.
You aren't to judge other countries warcimes but let someone else do it without you pushing your agenda.
Я слышал от финнов много гадостей и с этим придётся считаться
Мы не позволим вам в ступить в НАТО, держись друг, скоро мы вас освободим
Смотри как бы с такими санкциями и экономикой в гробу твое очко не освободили.
Yes it seems the time is not yet right for any risky moves. But of course you have way better picture of the internal state of things there.
I saw a lecture recently where russian culture and Punyas rhetoric was explained. Do you guys see and think that the propagandists ride on the idea of some historic idealized imperium which supposedly is going to bring all the slavic people in the world together? (while beating them up and stealing from them of course)
I understood the idea is deep in russian history and culture, only problem is that it's a medieval fantasy. Is this right at all? But it would seem it's very easy way to control people and have the kind of autocracy.
Because NATO does as the US says. And of course it was the US and NATO that kept sending Ukraine arms and ammunition, training its troops and the like. They pretty much created this crisis. Moved all the embassies to Lviv - “please Mr Putin, come in, attack!” And then Zelenski goes, “oh by the way, it’s time we get our nukes back” . This has all been orchestrated from the west, mainly, from the US / UK
Сисян спокойно
У меня все заебись
Frens, you're talking 4%, they don't represent the opinion of the majority. There are kurolds, leftists and lovers of globogomo
You need to ask not on this site
Hmm. I understand that, but I refuse to believe all that. I can agree with the part that all you need is time. But you don't need no war. Yes, I'm naive. But that comes with even the healthiest form of idealism. The science of ruling people democratically already exists. In that sense, things have already made easier for you. Nothing can take my belief away from ruski bros, who found peace with each other, and with others, even starting today.
... Then again who am I to tell this to you. Sorry, it's just me being arrogant. I should probably trust you to know your own people better. But hey, that's why I'm here for, to learn of you.
I think I already started to understand that part better, why one could easily think, that the next good leader could solve everything. Hell, I started to think that to myself, as I went through the thoughts of "how could Russians make it?" It's the easy answer and repeating the same mistake. You need grassroot movement to support the democracy on all institutional levels.
Dude, we had already kinda forgotten about NATO, because we have a dream about being neutral. I think I told you this before, that I had always thought that not one politician could ever manipulate us to NATO. No one gave a flying fuck. Then one succeeded, Punya, all it took was him to go insane.
I actually have an fucking eeepic idea. Listen up, bro. How about if Finland really annexed you (without 0 violence, we can call it peacemaking operation)? And gave you the governance and system you needed? I mean that's so fucking epic idea that I could see myself come secure peace there tomorrow. You just let our army secure the peace there (Finnish army vs. Punya and his gang.) Apparently he is in the Siberia right now. We'll make sure he will freeze there, as you will start to build everything up ASAP with help of Finnish delegation who knows how to create democratic institutions. You copypaste the exact Finnish democratic system and incorporate it to yours. You will do this by the help of Finnish delegation. Once the proper democracy is secured, and free media founded, you'll have elections. And you'll get your first parliament, that cannot turn into dictatorship, because it's so many voiced & secured with law that holds, that power can't centralize around one person and instead politicians just fight their endless fight vs. each other. Russian army will be under the control of Finnish generals, and if NATO, EU or China dares to come try anything, they will be fucked hard by nukes.
After the elections, Oligarchs turn into ex-Oligarchs by taxation (that's how free media works) and Russian GDP per capita rises to top-10 slowly but steadily. That will happen by the power of new currency, RuskiCoin (will rise 10 000% in the first year.) The remaining ruble reserves will be given to Punya to keep his dogs happy. Yes, no one of them did rebel against the idea of Best Russia, because they've been all bribed. The ruble is almost worthless by then, but it's enough for them to do cocaine and fuck whores in the ass while eating caviar for the rest of their lives. Once they've all died, the Siberia will join back into Best-Russia.
After the Best-Russia has been founded and secured 100%, we Finns will step a side, taking some of your nukes because who wouldn't like nukes? We will also want you to remember us when arctic has melted, you can choose how, because we would trust our Ruski bros. For example letting Finnish companies to drill oil would be good, we will pay the taxes, just like every other multi-national company that would set up companies in Best-Russia. The tax money goes straight for people, because that's what people want, and that's how it works in democracy with free media, if politicians try to rob people they don't win the next elections and the system will purify itself out of any form of corruption and they will be replaced with politicians who can get the job done. You would also let us live a good neutral life, but only so neutral that you would nuke anyone we'd ask, because we bros. That would be enough to secure our peace and neutrality.
How about? Just blink an eye if you are being held hostage, and I'll go manipulate the generals and politicians of ours and rest will be epic story in leaves of history.
Umm, idk if we in Finland even have CNN. Idk what they exactly show you in your media, but I can tell you this much: it doesn't exactly look good for Russians either. The Donbass wasn't solely bombed by Ukrainians, the cease fire violations happened both sides apparently. Atm. alot of propaganda from both sides also. According to it - if one chooses to believe it - both have been guilty of war crimes. If you really care about truth, close the TV, and seek information from both sides.
Of course we do remember. But it's been 80 years, the last of the veterans are dying, and no one wants another war. Seriously, who gives a fuck anymore about old shit? And if someone does, does he need to be taken all that seriously? Ain't affecting the public opinion that much. Only thing that is separating our relations right now is you having a crazy motherfucker as a leader. Our politicians once trusted him, but they simply can't anymore. No one can. I don't know how to fix that.
In all seriousness, I understand that you need time. And patience. But when someone starts to yell threats about nukes, meanwhile attacking a country that's been trying to come closer to EU, it's kinda hard. People sympathize with Ukrainians because EU doesn't represent so much power (in the eyes of public), but instead change for better lives to regular people. That's why Punya's invasion seems crazy to Europeans. If I were to put this into a figure of speech, it seems like you are beating a sick child, who is trying to extend it's arm for us to help. EU is a project, which forces people into more healthy democracy. Some might be afraid of the change and everything that comes with it, but I've seen it do alot of good for regular people who join it, or even get closer to it (because even a promise of future membership means that country starts to repair it's shit so that it can apply.) That's why it is hard for people to resist (except for Russians seem to be immune for the promises that EU carries.) And I fully respect that, it's not like it's trying to expand against the will of the people. Democracy can't be build without grassroot level movement.
That being said, no one is trying to force you to anything. EU just likes to have friends. Because why not? It's win-win. Now for last years it's been a zero sum game for everyone. Wounds heal, and water will find it's balance eventually. Future holds a lot of promises you, even tho now things might seem dark for you.
I like to dream for Russians btw, it made me to forget about the threat of being nuked for a second. For me better lives for Ruski bros represents peace for myself. Win-win.
Yeah I've seen how it goes. Woman wavering a sign of peace and half a dozen cops rushing to pwn & arrest her. But what the fuck, it's making me madder and madder for me to realize how dire your situation is. If police kicks a peaceful protestor in some EU country, it often makes it to a headlines in other countries and it's called a "shock" (the logic being, that if people want democracy and police comes to kick them, it's a big, big mistake from authorities who should be protecting the democracy =/= will of people.) That's the contrast for me to hear you tell about the Russian police using force.
"Mutual responsibility rules" = police needs to fucking kill people if it comes to that Russians want democracy too much?
Can you still migrate to EU/elsewhere? You can get to Finland by train (not sure if the migration system has closed up from either/both sides because of the situation?) If you are fast to learn languages, there are always some jobs available that don't require you to speak even nearly fluently.
I can somewhat relate, because the thoughts have entered my mind how to rescue my closed ones, if things escalate and shit hits the fan properly. I've yet to came up with any proper plan, if there even exists one. Also, as a Finn, we are expected to die in a hopeless guerilla war till we all have been nuked out of the existential crisis (our country has been studied to have the nr. 1 morale of all European countries to fight against superior enemy. If you wish you can imagine what that means, and get hold of the term "Sisu".)
Yeah, I'm realizing it. Fuck. And I came here yesterday to ask for you to try to stop this madness somehow, without realizing that it's like asking you to get killed in the worst case scenario. -.-
I'm sorry if I annoy you anons with my mumbojumbo about me being anxious about nukes, I'm slowly getting how much more horrible the situation is for you. It's making me to say I'm sorry again and again.
I will be continuing to answer more in a moment.
ахахахахахахахахахаааааа
Что ты несешь дебил, кто вас трогал? вы же безобидные сойбои, дети и зачморенные омежки
>Yeah I've seen how it goes. Woman wavering a sign of peace and half a dozen cops rushing to pwn & arrest her. But what the fuck, it's making me madder and madder for me to realize how dire your situation is. If police kicks a peaceful protestor in some EU country, it often makes it to a headlines in other countries and it's called a "shock" (the logic being, that if peo
Yes, he's just lying to you, like him 4%.
It's just puberty teenagers and tiktokers
>But you don't need no war
Most of us know that, u don't have to explain it, but also we have muslim and uneducated people, who think that war and agression is the only way to equalize them with intelligence and theit lifelevel. Putin and soviet leaders made everything to educate big par of that kind of public here.
Poor and stupid peoples always become the tool for populistic leaders. You can see, that even in USA it's been used to rise raitings for present president.
Untill Putin still have enough money and meat to protect his power, we can't fight against him phisically, cause this is what they really want. They know, that phisical power and amo is their advantage. They learned to use it all their life. We should just wait now, when this government would be week economically and with scince, to give up and and take power in our hands to rebuild our real society - society of scientists, creators, writers and all other kind of brave smart people, that ready to open new horizons with other nations. The period, that we start now, will be very tough and cruel for us, but this is the only way to redemption. Our message to other nation is just to let u know, that behind the shield of Putin's media, payed internet trolls and amo, that Putin gave to muslim and uneducated youth, we still alive and waiting for our hour - in Putin's prisons, in other countries, in dark corners of internet. Don't be too harsh for any russian u'll meet in your life (especially to my friend Leo, who live in Helsinki now) and try to share this message in other resources.
>Do you guys see and think that the propagandists ride on the idea
Sure noone believe that.. We see Putin's and his friends palaces, wee their foreign estate, banking account (with internet it becomes open for everybody) and we understand that if they spent just small part of that money to industrial infrustructure, roads, since, etc. all slavic countries wold be happy to connect with us without war. But stupid people and propagandists think, that only military and police career will help them to have at least small amount of that public money from our rich natural resources. That's why they defend Putin so hard. They believed they they will leave our country with their family with all that money. That's why why we have so much hopes to todays economical sanctions, and we don't understand why foreign leaders didn't use real personal sanctions even to those who huniliated eastern countries all these years and let them live in their countries. This is their responseability too.
Yes, I can smell your kremlin shit 1000km away. You have a private spot reserved in siberia and you will beg for a police baton to beat yourself to death :)
jari litmanen is a great guy, all the rest is nonsense, and fuck the war of course
Yeah boy, you hate to hear the truth
Jesus fucking christ, you guys. Why does everybody write in such lengthy walls of text?
On the topic of this thread, I don't think we can talk about politics while the crazy balding gnome threatens to destroy everything. All we can do is hope that our prayers and protests would be heard and his death would come quick.
On the topic of this thread, I don't think we can talk about politics while the crazy balding gnome threatens to destroy everything. All we can do is hope that our prayers and protests would be heard and his death would come quick.
Не забудь жопу поглубже спратать когда начнется спецоперация по депутинизации.
Oh, and btw, u must watch this with your friends:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8rMyYbsktk
It will really cheer u up in these scary days.
Привет, Руски братан!
Человек, я могу только представить. Я думаю, что только "моральные" войны - это те, где защищаются. Ехать воевать в другую страну редко бывает оправданно, если большинство людей не взывают о помощи. Но еще больше шансов быть осужденным. (Мне, наверное, не нужно вам это говорить.) Если бы я был русским, я бы уже пошел. Где? Не знаю, но я бы пошел без колебаний. Если я правильно понял ситуацию, то наиболее "рациональным" объяснением вторжения являются газовые трубы, а до этого - севастопольская гавань. Мне всегда казалось странным, что менталитет российского лидера таков, что вам нужно обезопасить себя, начиная из-за рубежа, где, как мы думаем, война начинается, когда кто-то пересекает границу. Кроме того, все знают, что никто никогда не нападет на вас из-за ядерного оружия. От этого все звучит еще более фальшиво. Умереть за это или за экономику? Да, я понимаю на 100%, это тоже не моя война.
Приятно слышать, что тебя хоть что-то держит. Вы много готовились?
Я пытался ответить на этот вопрос раньше. Ответ прост, хотя я понимаю, что это звучит глупо для вас. Их всегда ебет только российское правительство. Я думаю, что Пыня дал некоторые обещания, когда его впервые избрали. Он казался дружелюбным по отношению к ЕС и больше склонялся к западу, чем к востоку (можно ли так определить русских?). Затем у него постепенно начали проявляться симптомы. Я думаю, это был реализм России - он действительно был лучшим выбором, поначалу. И правящая клика хотела, чтобы он продолжал. И поддерживали его во всем, лишь бы сохранить статус-кво. Потом из ниоткуда возникла натовская паранойя. Для вас «НАТО хочет расширяться» — это «Нам нужна НАТО, или нам пиздец» (это идет рука об руку с симптомами Путина). НАТО никогда не собирается нападать на вас, никто не собирается. В этом я уверен на 100%. Сила баланса делает это практически невозможным.
А вот и глупая часть. И прошу не обижаться. Думаю, западные политики уже поняли, что бессмысленно иметь дело с российскими диктаторами поодиночке. Один уходит, следующий приходит, все портит, а потом приходит следующий. Вас может спасти не лидерство, а все, что вам нужно, чтобы построить лучшую систему. Вам нужна сильная демократия, основанная на массовом движении, которая может поддерживать закон для обеспечения сделок, заключенных на мировом рынке. Вы можете подумать, что западным политикам на вас наплевать. И, возможно, вы в чем-то правы. Но так уж получилось, что и на нас им наплевать. Демократия оказалась самой прочной основой для свободной экономики. На самом деле, с экономической наукой можно утверждать, что счастливые демократические люди = самая прочная экономика. Вы видите здесь изгиб иронии? Если бы лидер-психопат хотел долгосрочного успеха в экономике, он хотел бы сделать своих людей как можно более счастливыми. Потому что они заботятся о людях? Нет. Потому что согласно современной науке они самые лучшие и последние среди овец. Счастье — это не пустое наивное слово для бессмысленных индивидуальных эмоций. Это знак равновесия и стабильности. По определению, это состояние, в котором человек не чувствует стремления. Что это значит для государства? Счастливые люди с радостью отдают себя ради других (перевод доходов на основе налогообложения от более богатых и счастливых к более бедным и несчастным). Это круг добра, который укрепляет себя. Хорошо, конечно, это не значит, что любой из нас счастлив, когда слышит о повышении налогов. Но это легко оправдать тем, что кому-то это нужнее. И угадайте, что, согласно общественным наукам, делает людей наиболее счастливыми? Отдача и альтруизм. Я не держу тебя, ты можешь проверить это. Мы, финны, платим высокие налоги и отдаем ЕС больше, чем получаем от него. И мы, дураки, в каком-то смысле этому рады (да, мы ноем, но кому какое дело, оно потом вернется). При желании счастье можно заменить словом «довольство» или «благополучие». (На самом деле я думаю, что один лауреат Нобелевской премии выиграл ее, создав индекс вместо ВВП в качестве измерителя экономики. Он утверждал, что благосостояние граждан является лучшим измерителем экономики, чем сама сумма денег.)
Теперь подумайте, что означает диктатура для экономики или олигархия. Он создает прямо противоположное. Кроме того, им легко эксплуатировать что угодно только потому, что они так считают. Некоторые люди на западе на 100% зависят от того, чтобы не заморозить свою задницу зимой, и это зависит от психического здоровья Пунья. Могу пообещать, он не боится убедить всех на Западе в том, что готов сойти с ума, когда захочет. По сути, он вымогает у Запада, если он хочет сделать шаг вперед в своей повестке дня «что угодно, когда угодно».
И это еще не все. Он также высказал опасения по поводу безопасности. Привожу пример из Финляндии. Он нанял пропагандиста, который распространял агрессивную пропаганду внутри Финляндии. Один из наших журналистов раскрыл эту "фабрику троллей в Питере", и за это их травили ч Я много лет занимался всяким дерьмом (в конце концов их осудили за преследование этого журналиста). Не только это, но также он купил землю и недвижимость для военных целей во всех стратегических областях Финляндии (таких как линии электропередач, аэропорты и т. д. .) У нас был ужасный кризис с беженцами несколько лет назад на нашей западной границе. Угадайте, что он сделал? Он буквально в одно и то же время открыл границы для БОЛЬШЕГО количества беженцев с восточной стороны. Список можно продолжать и продолжать, и мы ничего не можем с этим поделать. Только представьте на секунду, если бы мы сделали то же самое для него. Мы бы больше не существовали, потому что он буквально бросал бы в нас каждую чертову ядерную бомбу.
Вот как это происходит. Наша надежда на лучшую Европу и экономические и стратегические связи также возлагаются на русский народ. У нас одна и та же цель, и у нас точно такой же сумасшедший, как наш злейший враг. И если мы попытаемся хоть как-то помочь вам или даже людям рядом с вами, он готов начать проявлять симптомы. Эта же логика соответствует тому, что я сказал ранее: я имею в виду каждое слово, когда говорю, что лучшая жизнь для моих братьев Русских означает лучшую жизнь для меня. Видите ли, мы доверяем русским людям. Мы просто не доверяем Пуне. Мы не можем. Никто в здравом уме не может. Теперь это еще более невозможно, чем раньше. Он уже раньше так разозлил и напугал каждого политика, что это вторжение было последним шагом для Запада.
Офк, как я уже сказал, я должен был написать, потому что я не смог бы жить с собой, если бы я не сделал хоть что-то, чтобы сказать Русским, что мы не враги, даже если Пуня начнет утверждать, что (это еще одна причина, по которой финны боятся , потому что кажется, что он может сделать это с бесконечными пропагандистскими ресурсами.Мы видели, как он создает полные иллюзии по воздуху.) И спасибо, что не сказал мне отвалить. Это то, что я вчера много слышал, но чем больше я узнаю вас, тем больше я убеждаюсь, что братья Руски хорошие люди. Мы, люди, не против друг друга ради Бога. Вам также наилучшие пожелания.
Кстати, я уже вчера спрашивал об этом, но мне нужно было идти, и нить уже исчезла, когда я вернулся: если я когда-нибудь решу посетить Россию, могу ли я сказать здесь что-то, что вызовет у меня проблемы? Ваша полиция кажется такой, с которой я бы не хотел проблем.
Имейте терпение, пожалуйста. Я продолжу отвечать вам всем по порядку через минуту, нужно вывести мою собаку. ->
PS: И что это значит "Ошибка постинга: В последнее время часто встречается слово из спам-листа"? Список спама..? о_О
Sorry for google translate, probably full of errors, but for some reason this message didn't go thru in English..?
Fuck off lakhta. If things get better here someday - we will fucking hang you on the streets. I promise you that. For now, you may continue your default “8 years” bullshit.
haha snibeti snab xD
Fuck off! We are full!
We are against a war
But our old parents like it because they are eating noodles from putin’s tv
I don’t want to people die for political ambitions
But our old parents like it because they are eating noodles from putin’s tv
I don’t want to people die for political ambitions
>If police kicks a peaceful protestor in some EU country, it often makes it to a headlines in other countries and it's called a "shock" (the logic being, that if people want democracy and police comes to kick them, it's a big, big mistake from authorities who should be protecting the democracy =/= will of people.) That's the contrast for me to hear you tell about the Russian police using force.
Trust me, a broken nose, cracked ribs and a couple of kicks from the cops are not something we're afraid of. Firstly, going to such protests and even a hint of disobedience to the police is guaranteed to send you to prison. Lol, right now we are considering a bill according to which the spread of "fake news" from Ukraine threatens with 15 years in prison. 15 YEARS OF HIGH SECURITY PRISON FOR WHAT YOU SIMPLY PUBLISHED ON THE INTERENT A VIDEO WITH THE BOMBING OF KHARKOV. Secondly, if the authorities feel a real threat from the protest, they will start killing people. In the most direct sense.
>"Mutual responsibility rules" = police needs to fucking kill people if it comes to that Russians want democracy too much?
Everything is more complicated here. It's not even that they are afraid of losing power, but that they understand WHAT they will do with them after that. We only know about the tip of the iceberg of their crimes. If they lose power, it will all come to light. Therefore, maintaining power for them is literally a matter of survival. In 2014, in an attempt to keep their seats, they bought themselves a one-way ticket. It couldn't have ended with anything else.
>Can you still migrate to EU/elsewhere? You can get to Finland by train (not sure if the migration system has closed up from either/both sides because of the situation?) If you are fast to learn languages, there are always some jobs available that don't require you to speak even nearly fluently.
I do not know if they will let us through the border and whether you will let us in. For now, I'm thinking of trying to move to Georgia or to a friend in Kazakhstan if I understand that events have finally gone according to the worst scenario. Honestly, it scares me. In this case, I will have to find myself in a completely foreign country about which I really do not know anything, without housing and work. And with money, everything is also difficult. I managed to withdraw all the money that I had left immediately after the start of the invasion, 200k rubles. Now it is about $2200 and the rate continues to fall rapidly. I did not have time to exchange currency, because already on the 24th all the currency exchange offices were empty. The remaining exchangers work at an insane rate like 90 rubles for the sale of the dollar and 150-180 rubles for the purchase.
However, anon, thanks for chatting with me. This gives hope that everyone will not look at me as a sick invader who will approve of all the shit that our government is doing. Just know that these bitches sitting on top have occupied us just like they are now trying to occupy Ukraine. Apparently, the West is just beginning to understand our situation. Here, of course, there is a part of the population with a completely brainwashed propaganda on TV, but I would estimate it as about 30% of the population, mostly old people. Another 20% passively support all this, but not out of personal conviction, but rather out of ignorance. As soon as they personally see the world behind the screen of the shit that they pour into their ears - they will be furious, but it will be too late.
I don't know how blindfolded you are by your media, but alot have died. I guess that's why they started to bomb the shit out of the Ukraine. Cannot pass without bombing everything down first. This is legit fucking absurd: the idea that some of your future hope might lie in the idea of your own people to dying in masses, for even something hope of change.
For us the Punya pretend that you Russians hate democracy, basically claiming that you are a "different race" which by culture doesn't want democracy. Think that for a second. By that argument, anyone who would be willing to help you from outside of Russia and trying to reach help for your people = automatically enemy. It is crazy situation. Even that westerner wanted to help you within altruistic manner for your system to evolve faster, he is deemed a threat to your state.
And here comes the irony: spreading democracy seems to be joyful for us Europeans (kek). It is in the values. I could imagine alot of people wanting to help you. But no western spies allowed, you know. He has made our help your enemy. This is fucked up. It would be actually better if you were like some 3rd world country that doesn't refuse help to build better system on a delegation level. If it was so, this shit wouldn't probably exist. And listen, I don't mean to be condescending you. I know Ruskis be strong people. I'm not criticizing you, only your fucked up system.
Idk why the idea of that reminded of Hitler's fantasies. Didn't he have some medieval fantasy also, how he powered the idea of uniting German races? People should know better to let some parts of history go. There might be people who are more into future, than to larp some medieval fantasies.
And yup. I sometimes wonder if the paid commentors are the only ones to really support Punya, and their brainwashed victims. Like, could it be an illusion only? This is so fucking scary. Is Russia going to be the next country which future will explain "There were good people also, not all of them were Punyas on a murderspree"?
Yeah, I guess that's part of why Ukraine is in a risk of turning into a crater. Seems like they had been armed the Ukrainians with infinite resources. And Russians ran their fist straight to a wall. I have a bad feeling about this. Tbh first I was like "oh fuck, Ukrainians going to get owned BAD.", now I am more of a "oh shit, they might be doing little too good for it to be a good idea for their existence." You can blame NATO for this. But then again, look at our Ruski bros. Ukrainians are now facing a change of getting both rekt, and then being kept hostage by Punya.
I'll check that out! Have you seen the Winter War documentary "War without victory"? It combines views from both sides, another one being Ville Haapasalo who presents the Finnish pov (that Finnish actor from the movie you just posted) and Sergei Shnurov (idk is he famous in Russia or not?) presenting the Russian/Soviet pov. Imho 5/5 greatest documentary ever made about war. It's basically two buddies telling the narrative from their ancestors perspective. If you are interested in the subject, I recommend you to watch it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qABVeIspok
What's lakhta?
Great to see others to have figured out that people who spam "8 years.." are deffo paid bots spreading copypasta. They get paid 450-600 in euros (56k-78k rubles I think?) per month. That was revealed by the Finnish journalist I told you about, who did super good job investigating how they run these "trollfactories". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkOcegTtxr8 <- That documentary tells her story, I think.
It's been studied that sadism is the most suitable personality trait for internet trolls. I'm thinking to myself, do they hire the most sadistic persons they can find, or wtf, because the bots actually seem to get some level of satisfaction out of their work.
Things will get better. It's not if, it's when. (This is to your bot friend, he can find the context from your message. :)
sprärgels :D sprölö XD
I get that. I've lately noticed that only people who want war, seem to be nazis, they act like nazis, and they also see nazis all around them (source: propaganda.) My head is so fucking full of the word nazi from all this shit. Like, for me it seems like some kind of magic word to turn the Russians or Ukrainians into killing machines.
Is the general opinion in Russia that there are still nazis somewhere in the world (besides the small minority whitethrash groups of max 0,001% of the population? Or is it just a pure hate left from WW2 constantly scanning to finding target to vent off all the hate? Like, is it a Russian trauma that hasn't found a way to heal from it?
Nah, I think you Ruskis are slowly growing on me. I think Imma stay here for a while. If I can do anything to help any of you guys, let me know.
I kinda get the feeling that those petitions are useless, if people are afraid of everything, and already too depressed to fight back. No one gives a shit, they are paralyzed. And ofc there's the paranoia of the people signing them to be first ones to go to front line as a cannonfodder, I could imagine.
... You guys should already start planning a darkweb-forum for a base to keep contact for chancing things. I have a feeling we have just seen a beginning of the censorship you are facing. You know, the darkweb was created for that very purpose, instead of just crimes.
And yup. That's kinda the picture I got. I've read somewhere that after 2014 Euromaidan they've used more propaganda & censorship than back in CCCP in Russia.
Listen to me now carefully. If your life depends on it, just fucking run to Finnish side. Once you meet guards, yell "asylum." If I remember the law right, once you've done that, they are obligated by EU/international laws to take you in, and offer you help. If your life/health is in danger in your homeland, they are obligated to let you stay in Europe. They will provide you with enough everything to get things started here: free language courses, free everything. You won't be rich, hey, it's free to educate here. So if you are willing to learn the language, nothing is stopping you to get into the top class even.
Idk, maybe you all should just move to Europe. I'm not even fucking kidding. That seems like some kind of solution in my naive mind.
Is there any more realistic hope existing there? Like some elections or even something that could bring even some change? Anything? Or is it just either that Punya dies, or then he kills your country to the point of not being able to fight you back?
I wish you know, that once the people are ready, I could imagine west be coming to help you 100%. Whatever you need to make the revolution happen, without nukes flying.
Np, it has been pleasure to chat. I've learned alot from you guys. I will let everyone I can to know what you are going through. And actually the best you can do now, is open up and let your voices be heard. The whole world is watching you.
Rofl. Deputinization. I will make a meme out of this in Finnish board to support you Ruski bros, and try to force it to our culture. Just to make sure people know to distinguish Ruski bros from Punyas. I've already announced that I will reveal a huge meme that will be step into a right side. Yes, I know, this sounds stupid, but I'm feeling sick of not being able to do anything to stop how things are evolving right now, so I'm willing to do anything. I have a real bad feeling about what is about to come.
I will lurk here some more time if someone wants to chat. I might be back today also, if someone wants to talk more. If you have questions, free feel to ask.
>Also can you please stop the war already, I don't want to join NATO and go to fight somewhere in Somalia ffs.
You have to. You are allowed your government to leave the neutral status like it did the northern europe and even Switzerland. There is a price to pay.
> and go to fight somewhere in Somalia
you wouldnt
next moment of sighning agreement your country will be preventually nuked
Мне жаль молодых русских парней, которые воюют в Украине. Похоже, ими манипулировали, чтобы они сделали что-то, чего они не берут на себя. На видео из Украины они плачут и боятся. Это чертовски ужасно.
Мне их жалко, да и всех остальных россиян в похожей ситуации. Вот как мало ваше правительство заботится о вас. Они заставят вас начать войну (говоря, что это всего лишь тренировка) и убьют вас.
Это полностью противоречит гуманитарному мировоззрению европейцев. А Украина в этой войне потому что хотела стать европейской, а не как Россия.
Рассказ Путина вообще лишен смысла, и люди думают, что он либо сошел с ума, либо намеренно ведет себя абсурдно (ведет себя как сумасшедший, чтобы напугать людей). Пыня настолько любит своих дорогих соседей украинцев, что посылает войска, чтобы убить их? Украинцами руководят нацисты, а их президент еврей? Восточные европейцы не могут вступить в НАТО, потому что это агрессивно (НАТО — оборонный союз), а Россия нападает на страны, не входящие в НАТО? К черту логику.
>What's lakhta?
Lakhta Лахта 2 is an address in Petersburg. There is an office of "Kremlinbots" or "Trollfactories" from where they pollute the entire Internet with their shit. You learned about them relatively recently, but we have known about their existence for a long time. They appeared around 2010-2011 after protests on Bolotnaya Square in Moscow. They are famous for their manuals on which they work. There is a list of phrases, expressions and arguments that should be used in posting. Now it is "8 years of occupation of Donbass by Ukrainian nationalists/fascists". It got to the point where they messed up the internet so much with their "8 years" in recent days that it's become a meme.
>Is the general opinion in Russia that there are still nazis somewhere in the world (besides the small minority whitethrash groups of max 0,001% of the population?
Well, Kremlin propaganda claims that we are generally surrounded by fascists. Europe and the USA are literally fascist states, and we honor the traditions of our grandfathers and proudly stand up for our fatherland. If we talk about how people perceive, then it is the same with the issue of the current war. Those to whom the TV has replaced the brain - yes, we are surrounded. Any information that tries to break this illusion is enemy propaganda and fakes paid personally by the US State Department. Everyone else considers this the absolute nonsense of a madman, due to which the older, more gullible and naive generation is being brainwashed.
>I kinda get the feeling that those petitions are useless, if people are afraid of everything, and already too depressed to fight back. No one gives a shit, they are paralyzed. And ofc there's the paranoia of the people signing them to be first ones to go to front line as a cannonfodder, I could imagine.
Yes, petitions are useless. Our country is literally captured by a bunch of criminals. Well, yes, it's scary to be in the forefront. For example, in 2012, on the same Bolotnaya Square, when I was detained by riot police, I received a double fracture of the jaw with displacement and lost three teeth. Before being dragged into the bus for the detainees, I was thrown face-first onto the pavement in handcuffs. So in those years the police were "soft". Now they have become much more cruel, which is why people simply run away from her or completely stop resisting if you are grabbed. If you try to resist, you will be beaten and convicted for "injuring a police officer." I don’t remember exactly how much they give for this article, but a lot, I think within 4-8 years. So the only thing left to do is run away.
>You guys should already start planning a darkweb-forum for a base to keep contact for chancing things. I have a feeling we have just seen a beginning of the censorship you are facing. You know, the darkweb was created for that very purpose, instead of just crimes.
Yes, we have had them for a long time. The question is that you can only communicate there, we simply do not have levers of real influence on the system. The Kremlin took care of that.
>Listen to me now carefully. If your life depends on it, just fucking run to Finnish side. Once you meet guards, yell "asylum." If I remember the law right, once you've done that, they are obligated by EU/international laws to take you in, and offer you help. If your life/health is in danger in your homeland, they are obligated to let you stay in Europe. They will provide you with enough everything to get things started here: free language courses, free everything. You won't be rich, hey, it's free to educate here. So if you are willing to learn the language, nothing is stopping you to get into the top class even.
Thanks, I'll take that into account. I'll leave it as a last resort.
>Is there any more realistic hope existing there? Like some elections or even something that could bring even some change? Anything? Or is it just either that Punya dies, or then he kills your country to the point of not being able to fight you back?
Elections? What it is? The first and last, at least to some extent, fair elections were in 1995. Putin was not elected president at all. Yeltsin retired in 1999 and gave him the presidency. Since then there have been no elections. I'm not at all sure that those forms that are thrown into the ballot boxes have anything to do with the published figures. Lol, even once on TV at the stage of preliminary calculation, when adding the displayed percentages for candidates, it turned out to be 146%. This is no surprise to anyone here.
>I will let everyone I can to know what you are going through. And actually the best you can do now, is open up and let your voices be heard. The whole world is watching you.
Thanks. It just becomes a shame when everyone looks at us as some kind of morons who cannot gather in a bunch and demand that we "just go to the square and overthrow the dictator." It's like literally driving a bunch of people to slaughter like cannon fodder. There will be no pity from the cops. The more people come out, the more they will be suppressed by the cops. Here, the anon threw links here . Look what the "police" has bought in recent years. Rosgvardia\National Guard is a semi-police force that suppresses protests.
8 лет!
The status of your "police" seems interesting to me. What motivates them? Fear? I would have to assume their wages are crap, is it fear of violence to them that keeps them going, or are they just brainless? Or are they at the lowest step in the corruption hierarchy and get some benefit?
By the way, if you can communicate well in english, you really don't need to learn finnish to get jobs here for example in coding and software dev.
Yeap. They have posted alot of corona anti-vac propaganda here. Even in the small city facebook groups there are some Russian trolls to post multiple times daily. There are high level global studies done for Russian & China to have spread antivac propaganda everywhere in the west. I could say that without an exception if we have any crisis, Punya will make it harder for everyone. Why? I still have no fucking clue. I think he just hates humanity or some weird shit.
Fascism is by one definition a totalitarian state defined by two main factors: Ultra-nationalism and a pursuit to return into some past glory. Idk, if we go past the shit talk and stick to scientific terms, it seems to me like Russia is winning the competition being the most fascist country in Europe. Btw, I know only 1 politic hinting half-seriously that he could be a fascist in Finland. Next day he got fired. People like that don't have a change in our society. Please let your fellow Ruskis know.
That doesn't sound too. But hey, look at the positive. If he chooses to blow the whole planet to pieces, atleast you can die knowing that you actually tried to fucking fight them. Remember, when nazis was cleaned out of Germany, it helped Germans alot to rebuild their imago for people realizing that there was people trying to stop the nazis. That tells alot. I believe in this sense you've already made history.
What I fear alot, from outside perspective, it seems like Punya has stopped caring even for his self. He seems to crime even in international level, not giving a fuck. Like he knows, that we wouldn't ever have to deal with western leaders again. That raises questions.. scary questions..
The very next good opportunity that comes, you must use it well. No matter if it takes 10 years or 30. Maybe it's the death of Punya, maybe something else. Do not let it slip through you hands, there might not come many for you people. I was afraid of Russians slipping to another North-Korea. Now having listened to you I realize you are already much further in that direction than I thought. It's scary.
I read through 1/3 of those, 2/3 didn't open (maybe they are being cut off from EU somehow?) It raises questions, how does he justify this all to himself. How can he view himself as a fit to rule his people?
Thanks for the chat so far everyone, if I don't answer anymore today it means I've fallen asleep. Lets hope for another day without sun coming down on us. Peace, my ruski bros.
To everyone else also: If you feel like the life gets too negative in it's expected future value in Russia, and you need asylum, just run to any European border and seek asylum. It's your best bet if you are being hunted atleast. There is a good change of good life here, if we don't all explode. All you need to do is get inside the country, and say "I need asylum." Rest will be taken care of for you. Take your family also.
Peace out, Ruski bros.
´´
They are usually losers who cant do anything useful, so for millions of people police is the only way to earn money for things like food you know.
Well, we have many organizations/divisions that carry out the functions of the police. Ordinary police consists of the same ordinary people, except that now they take relatively "patriotic" because they are less likely to side with the opposition. Then comes the riot police (riot police), those who disperse small and medium-sized protests. Thugs are already quite common there, usually radically disposed against opponents of the regime. Well, at the end comes the National Guard. This is generally some kind of new garbage that does not perform any functions, from the army to the protection of enterprises. For example, now in Ukraine there are several of their divisions. At protests, this is the most bastard scum usually. They are specially selected from all sorts of bastards. Very often, bio-garbage with criminal records or some kind of gopniks appear in their units. At the same time, all this is also some kind of semi-private shit belonging to Putin's friend - Zolotov. They are sent to disperse the biggest protests. Often, groups are specially assembled from people who live in the outback and hate "shitty fagots with iPhones and Starbucks coffee who are always unhappy with everything." This ensures that not only will they not feel sorry for anyone, they also get pleasure from the process.
Regarding police salaries. This is where you're just wrong. That's what in Putin's Russia they definitely don't spare money for - it's for the security forces. They are coaxed to the fullest because they are expected to have iron loyalty. Without a police state, there is no dust. The average salary in some small town, say, in the central part of Russia, is in the region of 25,000-30,000 rubles. So, a member of the National Guard there will receive 50,000. Plus, they are given apartments from the state through a queue, a bunch of all sorts of small benefits. ALL security officials retire earlier. The retirement age for a man in this country is 65, but a police officer can retire at 35. This is how we livesurvive under the soldier's boot. And you say "go and reclaim your country." Believe me, if we could, it would have been done a long time ago.
> This is legit fucking absurd: the idea that some of your future hope might lie in the idea of your own people to dying in masses, for even something hope of change.
That's the same as with Spartans and Messenians. No matter what Messenians attempt to do, they always lose, because the only thing Spartans do in their life is oppression, and they do it well. Only significant losses among Spartans can seed some discontent about their leaders.
You can track this down in lots of previous protests. Fucking students, scientists, musicians, programmers, any physically weak intellectuals deeply sympathize West, and they always get beaten/jailed for their protests. I can't believe any of their arguments will be convincing for Spartans, they just don't share any values. Spartans just get payed in any case, out of taxes, simply for loyalty and subordination, there's no reason for them to change anything. Unless lots of them suffer in some useless campaign.
Well... fug.
Thank you and others for explaining.
On the bright side, if you get drafted legit just surrender to the Ukranians for an easy 40k Euros:
https://www.dailysabah.com/world/europe/kyiv-offers-over-40k-euros-amnesty-to-russian-soldiers-who-surrender
Also heard that the EU is considering offering amnesty to those who haven't committed warcrimes so honestly just surrendering and then fucking off to Europe with 40k Euros instead of getting killed in Ukraine sounds like a pretty good deal
https://www.dailysabah.com/world/europe/kyiv-offers-over-40k-euros-amnesty-to-russian-soldiers-who-surrender
Also heard that the EU is considering offering amnesty to those who haven't committed warcrimes so honestly just surrendering and then fucking off to Europe with 40k Euros instead of getting killed in Ukraine sounds like a pretty good deal
Good afternoon Ruskis. How has the day been for you? Anything new?
This sounds like proper dystopia.
Yeah this actually clears things alot. The country is ruled by pure physical strenght. Not brains.
They should be MUCH more clear about that. It should come str8 from some official. And it should not "concidering" or "maybe" it should be 100%. I could imagine it to be btw, because of the law (I could imagine the ones who surrender to be in danger in Russia?)
Idk, idk, what the fuck. Just do not lose hope, or faith. That what's determines the strenght of the spirit in the end of they day.
This sounds like proper dystopia.
Yeah this actually clears things alot. The country is ruled by pure physical strenght. Not brains.
They should be MUCH more clear about that. It should come str8 from some official. And it should not "concidering" or "maybe" it should be 100%. I could imagine it to be btw, because of the law (I could imagine the ones who surrender to be in danger in Russia?)
Idk, idk, what the fuck. Just do not lose hope, or faith. That what's determines the strenght of the spirit in the end of they day.
>The country is ruled by pure physical strength. Not brains.
This is why some countries are shitholes and some are not. Submissive people always end up being ruled by strong, oppressive governments/entities, one of the clearest signs of this being blind nationalism and the complete lack of action towards the ruling elite. The citizens might not be content and they might even criticize the system, but they won't act against it. As if they are running on a code. The easiest way to not get run over by an oppressive government is by having a system that completely relies on democratic voting (Switzerland) or long traditions of democracy/citizen participation (the United States). Russia has neither.
Can you please provide any evidence you’re not proxying your location? With all respect
OP is clearly Finnish, he knows 'too much' to be an outsider.
Uhm. Sure. Umm. Will this do?
Out of curiosity, why did you question that?
ruski does not believe anybody
>red colour
лол блядь
так у вас тоже не паспорт а туалетная бумажка
ахаххахааххаха
Is it possible for you Ruskis to get into problems with police for only showing some negative attitudes against Punya inside the internet? Even if it would be only factual criticism (not propaganda)?
Lol, they closed two old radiostations just cause they tried to show situation from both sides. That was those kind of stations, that some times showed loyalty to Punya's regime and used as a tool of "smart" propaganda in usual times. But now even they become victims of that regime.
Ofcourse, until that days they wouldn't arrest u, if u just write that u don't like Punya, but now we got special times and even that could be reason for local policeman to come in your flat and warn u at first.
And also they signed new law, according to those anybody could go in prison for 3-15 years for "sharing fakes about special operation". In translation from russian governmental language, it's mean, that they will arrest u, if u'll call it "war" instead of "operation" or say that we lost more soldiers than official ministry tells.
The scary thing is, if they cut you totally from internet.. I mean you may be immune for the propaganda. But how about the future generations, if the next president is even more authoritarian than Punya?
I wonder if they can extend that to foreigners. If Punya would know that I've posted here, would he arrest me instantly if I step inside the Russia? I mean, it has always been on my bucket list to come visit Russia.
Any hope for the better, inside the Russia? Feels like there's this huuuge acceleration going on, where every hour matters.
No thanks. All large empires suck for the average common Joe. He doesn't get to decide, voting doesn't work, high taxes, poor living standards, filth, crime, corruption, poverty, endless wars and drafting and other gay stuff...
The best life quality is in small-to-medium sized nations:
-Switzerland
-Norway
-Sweden
-Finland
-Japan
etc.
Why would you ever want to live in:
-Brazil
-Russia
-India
-China
etc.
The only exception is:
-USA
They are large, but you can have a decent life there.
> Also can you please stop the war already,
It not possible until Ukraine surrenders.
> I don't want to join NATO and go to fight somewhere in Somalia ffs.
Then don't join NATO.
What's the news? Very shitty. In our parliament, a bill has been submitted for consideration, according to which conscripts will be sent to the Donbass. But these conscripts will be those who were detained at the current protests against the war. Do you remember I wrote to you that your demands and calls for us to come out to protest, it's like throwing people against tanks? Well, now it will be in the literal sense.
https://www.interfax-russia.ru/moscow/news/uchastnikov-akciy-protiv-ispolzovaniya-voysk-rf-za-rubezhom-predlagaetsya-prizyvat-na-sluzhbu-zakonoproekt?utm_source=yxnews&utm_medium=desktop
>if they cut you totally from internet
Oh don't worry about it. They are good in money stealing, they good phisicalal repressian, in propaganda a little bit and in old fashion wars. Dut they're really suck in techologies. Even China couldn't close fully from global network. As I told u here , all intelligence public against this regime, even those part who work on him, cause they always feel phisical danger outside their openspaces and we'll find method to connect with outer world.
One of the funnyest history of past years is their tryings to block Telegram in 2017, cause it was the only messenger, they couldn't moderate from opposition. And the only thing they reached is that it become most popular messenger and source of news in our country. Everybody learned how to use vpn and proxy and in the end last couple years all big state organisations opened their official accounts there.
Actually it could be our advantage after all sanctions - russian engeneers and programmers will be best in information security sphere. They already good, cause we live in this reality for 8 years, so u could advice someone, who try to find security engeneer, to hire russian one - it would be cheaper and he will have good experience.
>If Punya would know that I've posted here
They don't really care about foreigners, posting things like this. Only if u wouldn't organise any campaign against him and start recruting peoples there. End even in this case u would become just good example for russian propaganda how west hate us, cause of out freedom and spiritually.
For us best way to avoid this kind of problems - is just posting under proxy from fake account. Don't really hard, so u'll anyway will always have possibility to know real information from here, if u could filter payed posts.
>Any hope for the better, inside the Russia?
Not for present years. Civil nations separated us and leave alone with Putin, we waiting much more cruel repressions, cause war times justify any cruelness. But our fathers and greatfathers already lived in the same conditions and russian culture and nation didn't die. Those times made russians so really spiritual, brave and philosophical people.
Yeah, I've got that. And that's what frustrates me. Idk, internet and social media held some promises about connecting people globally in a way, that could've prevented this everything. Now I realize how dumb and naive I was.
Also, I've never realized before, in how bad state Russia's democracy is. Only by chatting here I understood it better.
We wanted to stay neutral, but NATO might be inevitable now. It's somewhat up to the majority, and things look kinda bad outside. Every Finn is asking themselves "what could prevent the same to happening to us?"
Yeah I actually just read that before. I was hoping for it to not be true. That sounds absurd, I can only imagine how low the fighting morale is for the ones who protested against the war itself.
The situation seems absolutely hopeless. And now I also feel guilty for wanting Ruskis to stop this. Shit.
Sorry.
>>We should just try to relief this times with less damages for our mentality and phisical health.
That just might be it. I should prolly shut down my PC and open it once I hear the situation is over.
How about large scale strikes? Could they be effective tool to pressure your government to act for your people rather than themselves? I mean massive coordinated strike with clear and reasonable demand list, nobody goes to work until demands are filled.
These have been the most effective types of protests at least in finnish political history.
Cyrillic alphabet and language difference is really helping Putin to keep information public gets in check. It almost the same as we have really though time understanding what happens in Russia. In China this information bubble is even worse than in Russia.
I actually just watched some university lecture where was this dude explaining the historical background what explains how you Ruskis view things (what seem absolutely absurd for us.) He presented a point that as you've had to deal with so much shit before, it is viewed as virtue to be able to go thru suffering. Also because going thru it there might be a price (better tomorrow) in the end of it. The larger picture is coming together bit by bit.
If nothing else, the good thing is that I'm learning about your culture. What is kind of, umm, special about you, is that only by understanding how you suffer and how your ancestors have suffered, one can really understand you. Well, maybe that goes to every culture, but idk, it just seems that there's SO much suffering in yours.
Also, btw, it was brought up in your lecture, that what makes Russia different is that you never really handled the Stalin-era properly(?) I mean, some still view him as a ok guy? In west all the war criminals etc. were judged by history and only by that we had a change to learn about past mistakes. Could that have been also part of why Russians think the world is in some weird fascist state still?
That is actually not a bad idea at all. But then again, how do you organize for it, if you are instantly thrown to jail? I've heard from my WoW-Ruski bro once that there's snitches everywhere(?)
One thing that I've learned is that one should not underestimate Russia's ability to fuck with their own people. Fuck. They have hundreds of years of experience how to oppress their own people. There probably exists even it's own science for it in Russia.
All tho, history also teaches, that you shouldn't underestimate Ruski peoples will & ability to make revolutions.
>I can only imagine how low the fighting morale is for the ones who protested against the war itself.
Moral? You can forget about it already, now they are most likely in complete horror. Here's some information for you about what the Russian army really is. According to statistics, in our military service, 60-65% of the deaths of military personnel in peacetime are suicides. Here, those who are not killed by the Ukrainians will most likely either shoot themselves, or they will be shot by the criminal scum that rules the LPR and DPR.
>The situation seems absolutely hopeless.
There is no hope here. This fucking land is cursed. If you're lucky, you can get out of here. If not, well, good luck.
Picrelated. This is what the protesters will have to stand against. As I said, if the situation with the protests becomes critical for the Kremlin, then all the protesters will be declared some kind of Western mercenaries or saboteurs from Ukraine. Do you know what that means? That's right, that means lethal force can be applied to them. Welcome to Russia. There is a lot of land here, there is a place for a grave for everyone.
Yeap. I've actually never thought before that the language could be viewed as a means of control also. Good point.
>That is actually not a bad idea at all. But then again, how do you organize for it, if you are instantly thrown to jail? I've heard from my WoW-Ruski bro once that there's snitches everywhere(?)
As our russian friend explained, russians are good in information security. This needs to be organized in internet by vpn. After the movement gets big enough, it will be impossible to track down who started it at the first place.
>Picrelated. This is what the protesters will have to stand against.
Putin and his gang can put an entire army on the street doesn't matter. There is nobody in the streets. Everyone just says to their employer that they are "ill" and just sit at home.
Would Putin really go that far that he would send FSB to like hundreds of thousand of homes to arrest people for being ill? How could he even do that? With what resources?
I propably get killed for posting these, i don't care.
What the FUCK is that? I can understand the meaning of the first 3. vehicles, but WTF is that 4th one? The van with the .. umm.. whatevers on the roof?
I've read that Russian population is slowly going through crisis, because people aren't procreating anymore. I don't wonder that one bit.
May I ask, what makes you different from all the other Russians? What has made your life different so that you've been immune to all the brainwash? Internet, I guess?
Also, from outside view, people like you are giving me some hope. You and your kind literally are the best hope of Russia, I'd say. For future, atleast.
https://v.ylilauta.org/31/0e/310ec374dacb28e6.mp4
I wonder what's the background there? Was he forced into the show and he didn't want to lie about the situation, or?
I'm starting to like the idea. Strikes would be efficient, no doubt about that. But I'm kinda done with hoping for Russians to do something. I wouldn't be surprised if that crazy motherfucker came to get them one by one and execute everyone with his own teeth.
This is all up to Russians.
I wonder what's the background there? Was he forced into the show and he didn't want to lie about the situation, or?
I'm starting to like the idea. Strikes would be efficient, no doubt about that. But I'm kinda done with hoping for Russians to do something. I wouldn't be surprised if that crazy motherfucker came to get them one by one and execute everyone with his own teeth.
This is all up to Russians.
You obviously do not understand how the Russian economy works. This is gas station country. Punya and his fucking cronies sucked at the oil and gas complex. They absolutely don't give a shit about the population, they don't need a lot of people to develop deposits. Yes, and foreign companies often work there under a contract, for example, Schlumberger. If 60% of the population dies right now, they will be happy. This means that now there are fewer fucking whiners who want a normal country there and some kind of fulfillment of the duties of the state. Paying less pensions, paying less security officials and spending less money on infrastructure means more money that they can put in pockets. We are parasites for them. We are essentially on our own here, the authorities begin to be interested in you only when you start doing something that they don’t like. If you don't show up for work, they won't care. We are slowly dying out. The population of the country in 2021 decreased by 1.04 million people. And this despite the fact that hordes of migrants from Central Asia are brought into the country. It would be ideal if we didn’t leave our homes at all forever or just quietly died. You can always bring another batch of migrants from Central Asia to the right places where manual labor is required. They have no rights and work for fucking pennies.
And, yes, the FSB is already going from house to house. They run recordings of the protests through facial recognition systems and, identifying the identity, come to the homes of the protesters. Sometimes after months. This is how my friend got a criminal record for attending a protest in January 2021.
Russian analogue of this thing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Denial_System
You know, we're living on the really unique territory - connecting european, arabian and asian worlds and we can't use experience of any other country. Our ancestors achived impossible mission, connecting and settling this territories and didn't lost control for thousand years. Noone could do that before. Even much older empires broked on that way. That's why we can't use any other nation experience.
We don't like suffering ofc, like any other people. But personally if u have nobody to concern about u, going through suffer is thenonly way to learn on instinct level how to avoid problem in future. And we try to do it on the level of our full nation and not to lose territory, for what our ancestors suffered earlier. Like Syberia for example. We didn't take anybody's blood to got it, but our ancestors lived in impossible conditions to settle it and now we have many natural resources from that territory and don't want to give it to China or Europe. And we have same examples on every part of our country.
>you never really handled the Stalin-era properly(?
If most of us didn't think that Stalin - is another kind of Hitler, USSR didn't broke up. But it would be incorrect to relate to anything so simple. Phenomenons of that size is always much more complicated and u can't become leader of so big nation just with raw power. It's like to say, that all finish think that Hitler was a nice guy, because after all they using freedom, that he helped them to have before WW2.
I tell u just one example. Few years ago I met one very old lady and we have good conversation. She told me a little of her family history. Her grandfather was a priest before soviet revolution 1917. After revolution he was arrested and tortured till death, because religion was enemy for communists as a base for tsar's power. Ofc as a family of priest his family still was enough religious, but didn't show it to anybody. When she was very young she had to prepare for May1 (the most important soviet holiday), and in those year in the same days become russian easter (most important holiday for any christian religion). She couldn't take apart in both holidays and her mother told that she should miss soviet holiday to be with family, pray and celebrate easter. But her grandmother become angry and hardly insist on soviet holiday for her granddaughter. And that old lady, when she telling me this didn't still understand why her grandmother was so big fan of comunism. I didn't tell her, but I'll explain it for u. Ofc she hated soviet government as a reason of terrible death of her husband, but she didn't want same destiny for her descendants, and not to explain all the complications and be sure that her granddaughter could say something in opposition to soviet government, she preferred to educate her as a big fun of communism. Doing that, she deсided to save her life.
And most of Stalin and Putin fans now is that kind of people. They relived to much terrible things from that kind of leaders and their systems and they want to show us how to survive our lives. This dictators always come in skin of liberators as I told u earlier and if peoples made mistake and already given them too much power, it would be smarter to wait, untill their system will be collapsed by their stupid deсisions, just like it's going right now with Putin.
Sry 4 mistakes, i don't really use translator. When I try to explain any idea i don"t want to lose attention by switching between tabs. I hope u understand most things, I want to explain.
>May I ask, what makes you different from all the other Russians? What has made your life different so that you've been immune to all the brainwash? Internet, I guess?
I don’t know, I wouldn’t say that I’m particularly different from my peers. Maybe I was just born at the turn of the eras and caught the moment when the totalitarianism of the Soviet Union finally collapsed without leaving a trace, and this fucking kleptocracy has not yet gained such strength. Many of those who, like me, were born in the early 90s, grew up on Western films / literature and the ideals that they carried. Liberty, equality of opportunity and society that has developed enough to settle differences not by brute force, but in a civilized way through working state institutions. Already in elementary school, I understood that I wanted to emigrate from here to a real state where normal people live. Then I grew up and realized that the west has become some crazy shit with blacks smashing everything around and a mangled version of justice based on self-censorship in society. Either way, it's just infinitely better than what's going on here. After school, I entered a university, became a bachelor in the specialty of theoretical astrophysicist. I realized that everyone here gives a fuck about science. Independently retrained for enterprise developer, java and kotlin. Then I completed my second higher education in absentia with a degree in applied computer science. Nothing special, there are millions like me.
Propaganda has no effect on me, most likely because after studying for a scientific specialty, you stop believing in anything. For me there is only thesis and antithesis. There is no such thing as "believe", only "know". And knowledge is something that has been verified experimentally or the phenomenon was observed by one's own eyes in the natural environment. I question any information received and start digging on the topic.
Hei pohjoinen naapuri. Kielelläsi sanalla "naapuri" ei ole kovin hyvää konnotaatiota. Mutta Venäjällä se on hyvä sana.
Näetkö... Olemme sitä vastaan, mutta emme voi estää sitä.
Kukaan meistä ei halua sotaa. Kukaan ei halua kuolla.
Haluamme elää rikkaasti ja rauhallisesti.
Olemme tilanteessa, jossa meitä vihataan kaikkialla Euroopassa. Jopa suomalaiset ovat keksineet meille erityisen sanan. Ryssä. Eikö olekin?
Oletko puhdasrotuinen suomalainen vai?
Näetkö... Olemme sitä vastaan, mutta emme voi estää sitä.
Kukaan meistä ei halua sotaa. Kukaan ei halua kuolla.
Haluamme elää rikkaasti ja rauhallisesti.
Olemme tilanteessa, jossa meitä vihataan kaikkialla Euroopassa. Jopa suomalaiset ovat keksineet meille erityisen sanan. Ryssä. Eikö olekin?
Oletko puhdasrotuinen suomalainen vai?
Ryssä is a very old word. It's no wonder that there is despicable word for russians in finnish language because we have been neighbors for thousands of years and there have been multiple wars between our countries. We have similar type of despicable word for swedes also "hurri". What is the despicable word for finnish people in russian?
chukhna/ chukhon
I grew up in Mari-El, we had this girl in school who was very funny looking. Slanted eyes and all that. Everyone in school bullied her calling her with that word. In reality, it means any person native to LenObl and doesn't even apply to maris
> The country is ruled by pure physical strenght. Not brains.
Kind of. It's too easy to tear apart the country if you rely only on talking. There are too many inner conflicts, quite not like in small Finland inhabited only with Finns with similar history and interests.
Kremlin was always talking about 5th column, specific category of people who's clearly confronting them. They use "brains" to exacerbate these inner conflicts. There's /po/ meme for this: don't shake the boat. Kremlin learned a lot how to effectively bait these people and apply power to them, to keep the country stable. Western countries always react to this as to human rights violation. And yes, the result of this is solid and opaque fortress of government machine.
Meila on vanha sana - "Чухонец". Niin kutsutut aikaisemmat virolaiset ja suomalaiset.
Mutta mukaan ei ole puhunut niin pitkä aika. https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A7%D1%83%D1%85%D0%BD%D0%B0
Oletko suomalainen? Voisitko äänittää puheviestin suomeksi?
Meillä on paljon trolleja.
Mutta mukaan ei ole puhunut niin pitkä aika. https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A7%D1%83%D1%85%D0%BD%D0%B0
Oletko suomalainen? Voisitko äänittää puheviestin suomeksi?
Meillä on paljon trolleja.
Juu ihan suomalainen oon. Voin raapustaa vaikka tällasen viestin tähä todisteeks, jossa on vähä puhekieltä. Joku suomalainen voi sitte todistaa tän perusteella että ihan aito heebo kyseessä, eikä mistää translatesta pysty tällasta tekstiä tuottamaa. En kehtaa tänne mitää puhenäytettä antaa :D
So that's basically a tool to microwave people from distance? ... I didn't even know such things existed. I've only seen police use pepper gas and that ends up in news as "brute police use of force." Now that I'm saying this it sounds ridiculous.
Are you saying that all the protestors, I mean ALL, not just only the ones who were jailed already, end up to the war? ...
Is the lesson for the day that having alot of natural resources can be a curse for the people living in the land, because then their leaders don't need to give a fuck about the people? The lecture I told you before told that the culture of robbing is inherited from the time of mongols, where only way you could stay alive was to steal. Now it's fully institutionalized.
The problems with minorities here are not that common (atleast in Finland.) But still, it's undeniable there are some. Who wouldn't hate all the problems they've caused? But then again, you saw me yesterday telling that anyone not being able to live in their home country can seek asulym from Europe. You must understand how much value the system holds in itself. It's moral. It took me alot of years to understand the openness of the migration system personally. But the more I see these kind of situations all over the world where the only solution might be people getting a change in Europe, I welcome all of them. Hell if I know if rebirthing is true, and in next life I don't have any other change but to leave my home country and seek for asylum.
Oh and btw, the problems are over exaggerated by the media. By alot. And I guess the democracy will solve this problem also (too much problems = less immigrants), atleast partially. And ofc generation by generation they seem to accommodate here better. EU is pouring huge resources on them, and it's doing it's magic slowly.
Also what comes to self-censorship, it's not for regular people. It's meant to limit the narrative of politicians. We've learned that much from history. With hate, no one should ever get too much power.
And yeah, that's what science does to people. Been there, done that. I hope you can have good future with all that studying.
Yeah, I can understand that it's not easy to rule such a huge country with all the different ethnicities and backgrounds. Maybe there's something we have incommon about living in harsh conditions. Except for us there was not much natural resources, only the people and their work. That's why the society has to care about workers so much, and their wellbeing (as I explained yday, wellbeing of workers = strong economy.)
The story about the old lady was an eye opener. Truly, an eye opener.
May I ask: do you all know some relatives, closed ones, etc. who have been fucked up by the Punya or the last leaders or gulags or whatever? You told, that the dictators "always come in skin of liberators", that sounds much like the story from the bible about anti-christ coming people mistaking it for something good.
Your english is fluent, dw about it.
Naapuri = neighbor. It's actually just a word like any other, no hateful connotations. (Except on anonymous imageboards some hint to a neekeri(nigger) with the word naapuri (because many of the 3rd world country immigrants are in the people's next door nowadays... I think?)
"Ryssä" does have negative connotations, I could imagine it to be comparable to "Sthuhna"? It has been known to be used in the times of past wars. Or something like that. As the war traumas have slowly been forgotten, "ryssä" has becomed a word which implies that it's user is an uncivilized fool (basically the same if you called someone black a nigger.) Alltho, atleast on the anonymous Finnish imageboard now it's showing up much more because of Ukraine's situation. Because of fear. It's like Punya has proven that Russia hasn't evolved one bit from it's past, but still is ready to attack it's smaller neighbors any given day.
Idk if you knew, but we have a long long history from Russian oppression. Many wars, much suffering. But it's mostly forgotten now, because of long time of peace. Only thing that's left is the word "ryssä."
I prefer to use "venäläinen" = "russian"
And yes, I am full blooded Finn, yes.
I get that. In a way, it's a blessing to have such a small country with homogenous people. And yes, I kinda covered this before in one message, saying that there must exist a science by now in Russia for oppressing it's own people.
It is a human right violation by western standards, yes. Next time when there's a revolution of people, you should prolly really, REALLY, try to think it through, how to prevent the mistakes of the past.
He is a Finn. 100%. Can't be mistaked.
Also: I know, this is the exact same message I came here with couple days ago. That the rest of the world ain't your enemy, even if your propaganda would claim so. Don't worry my ruski bro. We are not worried about Russian people so much. Only about your leader. He seems to know how to paint pictures of enemies in the eyes of public.
I am scared of your propaganda also using it against us. "Look, they hate you. Now go kill them all!" Fuck no. Most of us realize who to hate. Punya. Fuck, we only want good life for you. Because that equals peace for us.
>who have been fucked up by the Punya
I'll tell u my story, if u'll wait couple of hour here
Sure, I'd be pleased to hear. Take your time. I'm not in a rush.
Ryssä fits naturally to finnish language when referring to fighting russian soldier/tank/military etc especially if those russians seems to be fighting unjustified aggressive war. For example in imageboards nobody says "venäläinen kolonna" "venäläinen tankki" (russian column, russian tank) it's "ryssän kolonna" and "ryssän tankki".
Ryssä is very common when speaking about invading russian military. Although it is much more widely used in internet than in spoken language. As said "ryssä" in spoken language sounds very uncivilized. I never use it if i'm speaking about normal russian citizen.
I approve this explanation. Couldn't have said it in any more exact words. I think in Finland, alot of traumatic things concentrates on that one word.
If there is something positive about this situation it's this. People who never speak to each other tells them what they think and finds new worlds. I have even learned some russian past week and really trying to learn more of it.
Kyllä, puhukieli on erillainen kieli.
Minä uskon sinua.
Suomalaiset eivät koskaan valehtele.
Minun täytyy ilmaista hieno idea englanniksi.
To understand why the ultimatum on NATO borders is so important for Russia, one must understand that with our "brains" we still live in a military-feudal society. All our concepts of good and evil come from the concepts of military people. The military shaped our popular culture (we still have a bunch of films about the war and the heroic self-sacrifice in it). The world has changed a lot, but we haven't. Other civilizations say they can "buy out" these spheres of influence, and we still believe that they need to be captured.
If it is quite simple, then the West is ready to sell Ukraine and bargain with Russia about it. but not ready for the fact that someone wants to take her by military force.
The difference in approach to doing business
Minä uskon sinua.
Suomalaiset eivät koskaan valehtele.
Minun täytyy ilmaista hieno idea englanniksi.
To understand why the ultimatum on NATO borders is so important for Russia, one must understand that with our "brains" we still live in a military-feudal society. All our concepts of good and evil come from the concepts of military people. The military shaped our popular culture (we still have a bunch of films about the war and the heroic self-sacrifice in it). The world has changed a lot, but we haven't. Other civilizations say they can "buy out" these spheres of influence, and we still believe that they need to be captured.
If it is quite simple, then the West is ready to sell Ukraine and bargain with Russia about it. but not ready for the fact that someone wants to take her by military force.
The difference in approach to doing business
> it's a blessing to have such a small country with homogenous people
In your case EU/NATO are Russias. Lots of conflicting interests. For example, Russia doesn't finance independence of Catalonia, or call them to start the revolution against Spanish oppressors. Any call for revolution is just a proposal to ruin your economy for next decades, no matter who's wrong and who's right.
Regarding future, I think we should talk more. Different countries, different points of view, different problems. May be even our citizens should talk more to government, in less extreme forms. I've even wrote letter to Putin to stop military actions, still no response though, but it's my first time. Everyone's problems solved = everyone's happy. Cancelling, demonizing, alienating anyone isn't constructive. Russia was never against Ukrainian democracy or EU inclusion.
Возможным дипломатическим решением этого кризиса могло быть:
Украина может вступить в НАТО, если захочет, но четкие правила по оружию в Украине.
Никаких ракет или другого оружия, способного нанести быстрый удар.
Маловероятно, что НАТО было единственной причиной этого конфликта. Пыня также хочет, чтобы Украина была частью политического влияния России.
That much I know & have learned about Russia: It's a secutocracy & kleptocracy, dictated by physical strenght instead of brains. People don't necessarily agree with, but they have to. For Russians, it's not so much about surviving foreign wars, but to survive their own dictators (who all eventually go insane.)
I have faith in you. I mean, if you look at the past, the direction has been right. No more gulags, no more horrible famine (if I've got this right..?). Only shitty leaders, oppression, and war left. All it takes is your democracy to evolve a bit, so that it's in people's hand to decide. Idk if that's doable without proper revolution tho. That's what we have been thinking here alot, if you scroll the previous messages.
Have faith, my Ruski bro. Future is coming, step by step, thought by thought. :)
True that. I've also tried to learn the language in the past. Tho I gave up immediately. I've thought about going to language courses, cannot do it without help, I think (or then it is just my lazyness finding excuses.) One of my relatives learned it in 1 year, all he had to do is meet a Russian woman, whom he later married.
Само собой, Украина хотела отвоевать обратно Крым и ЛДНР, да собственно ради этого НАТО ей и нужно. Насчёт политического влияния не уверен.
посмотрите внимательно на этого ебаного фашиста. это фашист. они были фашистами 80 лет назад и они фашисты сейчас. тогда они верили в расовое превосходство теперь они верят в моральное превосходство. посмотрите это просто фашистская гниль которая навязывает вам чувство моральной ничтожности.
Such as with Norway? I think they have 0 NATO bases. Idk why the NATO even is such a big question for Russians. No one is ever going to attack Russia, everyone knows this for 100%. Nukes make sure of that. Tho I think it might be because of this , it gives Russia themselves a change to attack, if need be, in the future. (This is actually a scary thought for us Finns... ... ...)
But idk, do you view that's realistic outcome? I think Punya hasn't stopped yet because he is afraid of losing his face. Russia has taken enormous damage by now. Is there backing up anymore?
I could imagine the economic interests hurting Putin now the most tho. Fucking 630 billion halted by western banks. Ouch. And more money bleeding day by day.
Punya doesn't look like a man who has the mental strenght to back down from this kind of situations. For him, pride must be the ruling value in his life. The more you hurt him, the more he is pushing thru.
I think that the "Finlandization" could be a solution also, in a sense, without going through all the shit Finns went thru. But do Ukrainians accept this, it's different story. Like Finlandization with instant max level. :)
And what do you propose for Crimea? Idk why the Ukrainians even want it. I could imagine there are only Russians left there by now. Might be a good idea to let it be so, I know it hurts, I know it's not right, but damn, doesn't the war hurt, and isn't it wrong..?
Sometimes I forget that Russia is more of a federation. We talk about it as a single country, and instead for example USA where you hear stuff about their different states, Russia is for some reason most often talked as singular state. That does stuff to mental image.
The lecture I watched earlier talked about this issue. People reflecting their hopes on Putin. For us it seems fucking weird when we see him telling people to repair roads, etc. (like for us it seems like president doing a job which belongs to, umm, middle class workers?)
Also, wut. Do you have like direct post address how to write to him, and everyone can write him letters?
I'm glad you've tried tho. I wonder, could there, in theory, exist combination in words, that would make Putin see things in new perspective.
Yup. There is only to gain with civilized talk. Btw: I think there is some african tribe (cannot name it because I don't remember it's name) that views it to be the most important thing when two or more people run to eachother. They only leave the situation, after everyone has been fulfilled more as a person. That might something to think about, what that kind of attitude towards talking can mean for both individual, and the society.
Maybe that's what's slowing Russia down also? Do you have civil forums, etc, where people can run their heads together? I mean, in every healthy democracy talking about issues between people is important piece of democratic process. It shouldn't be undermined. Would be BIG for Russia to have one forum, what would be anonymous, and it would have only 1 purpose. To make Russia talk. (Tho would this get censored..?)
This is actually what has kept Finland out of NATO so far. People talking sense to each other.
Explain, what is this moral superiority you are talking about, that is annoying you? Besides it fast the nazis that were the fascist, we Finns were democratic.
Fascism in any European country = automatical social & political suicide. One young idiot in Finland tried that couple of years back. The very next day his political career destroyed forever, before it even get to began in the first place. He turned himself into the target of all society to hate.
Europe has learned from it's mistakes with fascism. Trust me.
I remember the day, when I opened my eyes on that system. March 22 2015. It was about 6 a.m. when I woke up because of somebody yelled me to open door. When I stand from my bed and come to window, I saw about 20 policemen surrounding my country house. They were wearing bulletproof vests with weapons and helmets. I never thought I could be in such a situation, but I knew exactly why they came. My wife worked for a development company a few years ago and her former boss started having problems with a criminal case. Such cases are often started in Russia, because if you are an entrepreneur, you have money and there are no big connections with the police or the government, then you become an easy target. Something like the fact that he made a deal with a former colonel of the special services, and then he wanted to get both the goods and his money back. It is impossible to solve such a case by law, because it was initially initiated on the basis of only false testimony. Therefore, the investigator's main tactic in such cases is to intimidate one of the employees so that he will testify against his boss. And my wife became such a possible source for the investigator in that case. The investigator had already come to me a couple of times before and threatened me, but I did not believe it, because up to that moment I was apolitical, far from the world of crime and considered it impossible for an innocent person to be imprisoned. But the investigator's threats turned out to be true, they framed the papers so that it turned out that my wife was very necessary for the investigation, but she was hiding, although all this time she lived an ordinary life with me. They just write notices of appearance for questioning, attach them to the case, but do not send them. And the judge pretends to believe that the man was chased for a long time, but he was hiding.
During the investigation, a person is sent to an isolation ward - this is essentially an ordinary prison with cells, only without an external territory. Getting there, people are usually already too intimidated and agree to sign any testimony.
In general, the courts in Russia are like a theater. Everyone knows their role, their words and how everything will end up, but in order to maintain the appearance of legality and earn money, they play this role from beginning to end. When the lawyer came into the judge's room and tried to speak in a simple way, like "You see that the case is ordered. Why are you isolating an innocent person?" The judge replied: "Look into the corridor. Do you see what a long queue of the same? If I read every case, I won't go home for the rest of the day." The court for the extension of isolation for the duration of the investigation takes place every two months. And every two months I saw the same attitude from the judge. They don't care - they will make the decision that the investigator asks for. The task of the investigator is to show that a person has no chance to justify himself and it is better to sign false testimony. But my wife refused to sign the lie all the time and therefore waited for the trial in the isolation ward for 1.5 years. It was the hardest time for me. I found myself in a situation where I seem to be free and physically healthy, but I can't do anything because my closest person is a hostage in this system and my emotional actions could harm him. And you can't count on any outside help, because our human rights organizations belong to the same system and just play their role. And international organizations have enough work with political prisoners. And for others, you are always initially guilty, just as I previously believed that an innocent person cannot be imprisoned. Of course, I had good friends and family who supported me, but it didn't help much, because the problem is not in a bad mood, but that your loved one is in a terrible place in danger and can't eat normal food, is humiliated and there is no understanding how long this situation will last. Nevertheless, a trial took place a year and a half later. The investigator found another employee of that company, showed her the fate of my wife and she signed the testimony he needed. At the trial, she was given 4.5 years, one and a half of which she had already spent in isolation. This term she was sent to a real prison far from Moscow, where we lived. It was already a real prison with sewing workshops. This means that the women imprisoned there sew clothes for the police and other state organizations. They get up at 6 am, have breakfast and go to work until 6 pm. 6 days a week. They have a plan for the amount of stitched and as a rule it is too big, so as a rule they recycle everything and have fines, which then do not allow them to be released from prison ahead of schedule. I spent a lot of effort and money supporting her throughout the term. Fortunately, all systems in Russia are corrupt and it is possible to improve conditions for a loved one for money. She was released after a year spent in this prison (a total of 2.5, taking into account isolation). When you see how confidently this system works at all levels - courts, investigators, human rights defenders and you meet a huge number of people who get into a similar situation, you can't believe that it's just a mistake of 1-2 people. It can only be a system that has been built for many decades. All these investigators have been working since Soviet times or are students of Soviet investigators. Putin, of course, cannot be unaware of the existence of such a human convoy, but he helps him to keep the population in fear and gives money to the police, who protect his regime. That's why they suppress any protests with such brutality. When they condemn such an entrepreneur, they return the money to the second party of the transaction, and he shares it with the police, who opened a criminal case. It can be tens of millions of dollars received in this way or as a bribe. You are supported only by the fact that you are not the first to pass these tests and you are trying to maintain dignity. I have heard about many stories when mudya abandoned their pregnant wives in such a situation, because it is too much pressure on the psyche. For a man, there is nothing worse than feeling helpless. And they are just waiting for you to start making mistakes on emotions, including signing false statements, if only all this would end quickly. And that conversation with the old woman took place in a taxi that I was driving. Because I, having 2 higher educations in good Universities, was forced to work as an Uber driver for about a year. Now I'm doing well and I'm building another very successful career as a project manager in a software development company, where noone know bout this, but my wife's ex boss got 15 years and he have wife and couple young children. His destiny much worse. But if you live here and already understood the rules, u know that some situations can't be changed.
This message written mostly through translator, cause it's too long, so I hope u'll understand it correctly enough.
>I've even wrote letter to Putin to stop military actions
А че сразу не в спортлото?
We don't want this war operation, but Putin (Pinya) wants. There's not much we can do about it.
Yep, i don't think anyone is going to attack Russia either. But Russia really doesn't want a situation where other power could blow a crippling attack before it even has a chance to respond. Tactical nukes from Ukraine could land on Moscow in just few minutes. But Nato is just one part of this. I think the most import reason for all of this is just that Putin doesn't want to allow Ukraine to separate itself from "Russian world" as he sees it. He wants Ukraine's political system to bee tightly intertwined with Russia.
But in this regard, this conflict just made the situation much worse for Putin's vision. Ukraine will never elect Pro-Russian government after this and even if Putin manages to install puppet government in Kiev, it is unlikely to last long. Putin needs to realize that you can't achieve any political goals by laying some medieval siege on Kiev in the modern world.
Public anonymous forums usually play on emotions of people. Shitposting, memes, lies, loud accusations, drawing dicks on someone's photos. You always need moderation to this, and moderation inevitably becomes biased and gets called a censorship. It's quite hard to discriminate properly, keeping only constructive side. I totally agree though that Kremlin should explain better its position and the reasoning behind.
I don't want to propose finlandization because that basically means that Ukraine's political elite has to be constantly faking "being ultimate friend". It basically means living in a lie.
As for Crimea I don't have any good ideas. Annexation was illegal but it is clear that majority there is very Russian. I don't know did they ever even had ukrainian identity but I'm no expert in this I really don't know.
Oh well...
I've expected something like this to happen since ~4 months ago (therefore Cyprus IP). And I'm so devastated by the fact that my worst predictions have come to be true.
Even though I've predicted to some degree, I didn't expect a full-fledged war to happen at this time. I didn't expect my motherland to be the initiator of this madness.
Every time I realize that my taxes were used to fund all those war crimes - it hurts. Almost physically.
I can't recognize those animals as a Russian army. They're putinists, modern fascists, and nazis.
The truth is, people can't stop this war. History is yet to see a real people-driven power transition. The only ones who can do at least something are Russian military higher-ups and oligarchs, but their latest actions demonstrate that they weren't ready for this. Putler deceived his own army, his own oligarchs, as he deceived himself. A lot of people hope for "tabakerka" (tobacco box, a meme that refers to the assassination of the Russian Tsar Paul I). Unfortunately, the probability of such an outcome is decreasing every day. I still hope for it to happen but the worst-case scenario should be expected here. In this scenario, Russia will transform into the new North Korea and will slowly decay for years, maybe for even tens of years. There's also a high risk of a nuclear conflict, but its probability also decreases every moment.
As you may have noticed, there are a lot of Russian propaganda agents, Lakhta. I even wrote a mocking message to them to scare them a bit by opening their eyes to their perspectives. Here it is, by the way: https://2ch.hk/po/res/46765286.html . I'm going to post this message again several times to ensure that lots of them will see it.
Terrible times. At least it's nice in Cyprus as Cypriots are quite sympathetic for both Ukrainians and Russians. Their sympathy is instantly gone when some random Russians declare their trust in putler and hatred towards Ukrainians, of course. Such a thing cannot be tolerated. Have seen only two such cases so far, every time had to endure, wanted to kill those nazis right away.
One of my Ukrainian acquaintances died in this conflict. Not a close friend, but it doesn't matter.
You know, Europeans and Americans have shown us an astounding level of hypocrisy. They ignored putler's ambitions 8 years ago and allowed him to annex Crimea. They should've stopped him right there, they didn't. Everyone with enough brainpower to connect simple facts understood what was going to happen next, no one did anything. Now, hundreds of millions of lives are ruined. Tens of thousands of lives were lost. Quite a high price for indifference, huh? And now they blame the remaining non-brainwashed Russians for the very same indifference. That's to be expected though since most humans are emotion-driven and irrational.
Well, whatever.
Google translate is amazingly good. Understood pretty much everything and that just sounds horrible :(
This is yandex translator lol and u'd better use it for tranlating eng/rus texts. Maybe other too, but many yandex services better then google has, cause development here much more cheaper and we already see problems of google services. The only reason, I can't call Yandex better company then Google is the fact, they colaborate with our government, but it's only cause they same business-hostages here. U colaborate with Putin, or lost your business and go to jail.
I know, all of that sounds like a nightmare, but this is the reality I lived. And after all, that's why I look on today's situation so easy and philosophical. Unfortunally, I lost much more in my life then just money or life (trust me, suicide in those situation looked like an easy way to stop agony) & made decisions with much worst possible consequences, then most of other. And I know, that many people here were in same conditions.
That's why Putin know, that Eastern sunctions can't push usuall peoples to rush Kremlin. We just value another things, cause instead of western man, we know, that even that nightmare could become reality. This is our advantage and national mental trauma, that can't allow us to become real members of world economy.
I don't have any better words to describe how I feel about that, than: Wrong (and that big W ain't an error.)
This is unbelievable, and absurd. What a journey these last days have been. When the war started in Ukraine, first I was fucking frustrated, and wanted Russians to stop this madness. I had seen some footage from big protests before, and I thought to myself this would be the last mistake for Putin.
.. Now I've came to realization, that it's actually the Russians, who might actually be the worst victims. Atleast the ones who don't support his regime.
Are you trying to say, that there are modern sort-of-a-gulags? Do you have any estimation how many are imprisoned atm?
Needless to say, that story would infuriate anyone. The lecture I watched, this was kinda sided this issue also, I think. But it was only covered by saying that "The higher power position you have, the more you have the right to steal from people. But there are rules for it. You can't steal any more than your position enables you." The lecturer used Mihail Hodorkovsky as an example from a man who stole too much, and was sent to prison for 10yrs. (Now this same man is btw trying to get people to protest in Russia. Saying that he spent 10 years in prison for doing what is right. Irony in that..? Or had the lecturer mistaken with something?)
Does everyone with the money get robbed, eventually? I could imagine this to be one of the reasons why western leaders are so frustrated with Putin.
Your story also kinda elaborated, why the elite is fearing for their life. What kinda baffles me is that.. and I could imagine to question this to be possibly the worst crime possible in Russia, so I try to ask this nicely. What makes Putin so sure of that he is a patriot? How can he do this to his own people? Also, I get that it is easiest to point at only one people. There is many more except Putin to be blamed in the upper levels of the society.
Also, can I share your story? I'm not offended by any means if you say no, but .. I think westerners don't really realize the situation you are in. I think most of us have thought that those kind of times have been already history in Russia. I mean I knew there was corruption. But for most of us, I think, it has been like, an exception if you meet a dickhead cop or something. Not that it's a full blown institutionalized robbing machine. And even if you hear a word "institutionalized corruption", what does it mean for you, if you haven't ever heard a story like that?
I am sorry if I sound like I am "morally superior" somehow, but it's not really that. It's impossible for a westerner to not empathize deeply with all that. Now I get much better why the western leaders are talking so much about Russia's human right violations. Often times I thought it to be some kind of twisted western propaganda.. but what do you know..
I hope everything is okay, and you or your wife don't have to go thru that ever again.
>Do you have any estimation how many are imprisoned atm?
It's really hard to count innocent щк not dangerous to society prisoners. I knpw that people with similar to my story were more then one million for last 15 years. Also we have very tough law for drug addict peoples. Not for using ofc, but police have plan for amount of drugdillers. If they found couple grams of grass in your pocket they bring u another 3 to have reason for open a criminal case. Statisitc say, that 80% of "dealers" stoped with just enough amount to open case, not less, not more (cause in most cases they bring extra weight to themselfes). And for that u could have 5-15 years of prison. And ofc we have a lot of political prisoners. If u'll count to them their family, who, going throuh that system just like me, u'll find that it's could be up to half of our population. We have "joke" here, that we are country where one half seat in prison and the other keeps them.
>Irony in that..? Or had the lecturer mistaken with something?
He wasn't real opposition. Political wars in 90s was another and anyone with money could take his own president, just like in Ukraine. Even Putin couldn't become president without support of Berezovsky.
People in opposition now fighting for their rights, Khodorkovsky fighted for power to become another Putin. Like any other oligarch, Khodorkovsky had made many crimes in 90s, but other oligarchs, was too afraid of Putin (that's why some people liked him too) and Khodorkovsy didn't realised new reality. Ex-KGB agent wouldn't fight against him civilian methods. If he continued to colaborate with Putin, he'd never go to jail even with all his crimes, just like all other oligrachs, like Abramovich, Usmanov etc.
>What makes Putin so sure of that he is a patriot?
The same thing, that makes uneducated or weak people think he is a good leader - Stockholm syndrome. For usual person it's hard to realize, that he doing something wrong or he live in trashbucket, cause of himself or he did a crime. They try to explain this situation to theirself with any spiritual theories. Poor people can't accept that he is hostage of Putin's regime, he prefer to think that he could change president, but don't want, and his personal in his personal choice as a price for greatness of russian nation.
And after all this years of repression and stealing Putin can't say to himself, that he is just another one despot. He explaining it to himself as a needed fight against foreign capitalists and foreign political interventions.
>can I share your story?
Sure! As I told, it's not unique here. One of the most famouse similar case is Eugene Vasilieva case. Ofc that was absolutly another money but methodicaly they used same strategy - to take in jail small manager, who shoul give testify, they need. This case also interesting, cause thay used it even against person from Putin's nearest circle and after proven facts of corruption on army and small time in prison, that minister still work in big state company. Cause for them he is anyway man of system and he was warned enough. So he will be more usefull in their dirty things and do anything not to go in jail, cause now he knows how easy it sould be organized.
>I am sorry if I sound like I am "morally superior" somehow
Dw bout it. I don't mesure people for words or thoughts. I trust in your good intensions. And if somebody don't understand true moral it's his own problem, because sooner or later he found, that he became hostage of that stupidness. We are all living in prison of our mind. At the end of all I started to compassionate all that people, who tryed to humiliate my family. Because we gone away of that system just after 2,5 years, but they don't have exit of that world until their last days, full of lie, humiliating and violence. They live all life in fear of their police chiefs or criminal bosses, they try to colaborate to earn dirty money. As I told u, weak and uneducated person use gan to equalize with smart and intelligence one. And they think, that when they take us in their world and blame us, makes them cleaner in their own eyes. And the reason, why smart person become that is because he have inner and moral view, not only outer watch on everything. This thing they could never understand. Sorry for that kind of obvious things, but sometimes it's usefull to repeat it, for not to forget in critical situation like we have now, where everybody thinks only on animal level.
Dw, I've understand that. I've been chatting here with Ruskis for couple of days, and they have been extremely eye opening.
Also, good vid. Saved it on my pc. You Russians must have a thing for melancholy, just like us Finns, I assume?
I agree. For me this is starting to look like a situation, where Putin's worst fear is that western values and especially wealth comes too close to his own people as a mirror, and as a contrast. Imagine, if the Ukraine goes to EU. I could imagine it to mean threat at cultural level for Putin's regime, and it's successor. We Finns are small country. Stalin found even Finns to be a "moral threat" to Russians. Think of what Ukraine could represent, if would be filled with EU-loans and stuff. I think that could be kinda compared to North-Korea vs. South-Korea. Imagine, if the North-Koreans saw from a close up mirror, what their life could be, without their leader. How do you explain that to people?
I know Finlandization wouldn't be optimal. But we live in a world where right doesn't always win. Force often does. And I could imagine, once things get worse, Zelensky to be ready to pay a high price for the peace. I cannot but be pessimistic about things. Seems like Putin is ready to make everything in his will to stop the process. That's why I am foreseeing a solution, where everyone will be unhappy somehow. A zero sum game. Shitty compromise, where everyone is in the worse place, than before.
But look at what price Putin has paid so far. I am afraid of things escalating. Situation would make more sense that way. Putin cannot be so stupid he'd pay that price to reach a zero sum game after all. I'm afraid that the most evil part of the plan is yet to come.
I hope I am wrong, and it's just me preparing my mind for the worst. That's how it often goes with my thoughts.
I mean. I get that. Media should be playing huge part in this. LOTS of different medias, clashing together. But, you know how it goes in Russia. But hey, here we are talking. Every thought is precious, and can be a small step forward on a long play of evolving ourselves and our societies.
Hey there, Ruski bro!
Sometimes I think to myself, one man cannot do that all. He cannot plan all that. There must be lots of people involved behind Putin's plans, him presenting only the face for all evil. But then again, then I might see Lavrov with a face radiating on fear, that gives you a feeling that he has been taken as a hostage and he is just repeating the words his prisoners want him to say.
Could it really be that this is all just a one sick man's fantasy playing out?
Also would you want to explain that meme "tabakerka"?
I actually saw some news today from some official predicting that Putin will be soon shot by his own people. Earlier I also saw that there is 1 million USD bounty on his head.
I have already bought iodine tablets, and have been preparing for the worst. Some call that paranoia, but if history has taught us anything, people often face the shit hitting the fan unexpectedly (even that there would be signs all over the place.) And now there are signs, actually all over the place. It's making me anxious, really anxious. I hope them to find a solution soon. Not just because I'm fearing for nuclear war, but the war is coming so close because of the social media and all that, and it's devastating. Me being the idealist I am, I thought that this peace could last in Europe. Lessons learned. It's been said that cynical people are people who are dissapointed idealists. I'm slowly getting there. I am afraid to even hope anymore, if this escalates.
It has given me alot of hope to realize that there are Russians, just like you, realizing the truth. It's actually the only thing that's giving me hope right now about Russia. The sad thing is, I could imagine people like you to have fled the country by masses (0 judgment btw, more power to you!) And that is nothing but understandable. I mean, if I was you, I would have been already going long time ago, and not looking back. Actually I wonder, if the only real change for Russians is democracy started by outside the Russia. You know? Free media, etc. for starters.
Good text btw. Idk if you've read the previous messages, but we have had those "Lakhtas" also in Finland, operating from Russia. As someone here told yesterday, they will be the first one to be hanged once deputinization starts. I'm telling this exact same thing for them as I spot their shit. I'm trying to tell everyone that they are not on Russian people's side, only Putin's, and that Russians are Putin's worst enemy and vice versa.
And you couldn't be more right. Idk if they realize what damage they are doing for their country. Like, do they really not? How can one spam hateful shit in internet 24/7 just to piss of people (that's where it has gone atm. No one is believing them, but instead turning against Russians.) I just would like everyone to know that THEY are NOT representing Russians.
Please don't blame this on west too much. Imagine, if all those paid bots were hired to tell the truth. West would be drowning on tears for sympathy over Russian people. Now they are there basically telling us "We Russians hate you! This is YOUR fault, that Ukrainians suffer! Or nazis, and you are the nazis btw!" You must understand that Putin has made this all look like that Russian people view us as an enemy, and that they don't want nothing from us, the least our help or our partnership.
This is part of why I had to come here chat with you Ruskis. I am afraid that this all will be used by the propaganda machine to make Russians feel like we hate them, now that west is turning on them. I get the feeling that it has been done for a long time - Russians brainwashed away from western people, who would like to be their partners. Call me an idiot if you want, but fuck, dude, doesn't it sit well with Putin's regime not to let any westerners help your people? If I bring up Putin's mistakes, it can be turned into "look, he's so morally superior and wants to push his values on us!" even that it's me being fucking human being who cannot but empathize with this stuff. They want you to see as your enemy, even tho we share the 100% exact same enemy. Putin and everyone involved in his doings.
I kinda covered this subject yesterday. First of all, I think when Putin rose to power, that he held some promise about modernizing Russia. He had been viewed as EU-friendly. He seemed like less corruption, closer partnerships, etc. But what did happen? You cannot blame western leaders for not trying. You know how he is oppressing his own people. Just guess how he is fucking with western leaders. They feel toothless. I can only guess how many times they've tried to assassinate him. I'm getting that FSB has stopped atleast 10 attempts (correct me if I'm mistaken.) I think they've tried to help anyone to step into power inside and outside the Russia. There would be SO much to gain for better relations, both for west and Russian people if Putin was gone.
Also what is not helping, west being dependant on Russia in energy policy. Putin has been known to extort west with closing the taps anytime he wishes. Besides that, he is not afraid to remind people of having nukes, lots of them.
But yes. That is clear by now. Putin should have been stopped MUCH earlier. But everyone was afraid of taking action. What would've been your proposal, how the west should've acted to help Russian / Ukrainians better? Or how should it act now?
Also, my condolences. Talking politics seems so empty, when people die.
I am answering to next messages in a minute.
The news focus on Putin seems to have gotten a small shift. What he says or does has a smaller role right now, as the mainstream news outlets seem to be keen on reporting about Putin's mental state. It's not explicitly reported that he is going crazy, but there are certain implicit suggestions that he is paranoid and mentally unstable. For example, some headlines say that the topic is being "studied".
Do you have this kind of reporting in Russia at all?
Do you have this kind of reporting in Russia at all?
I agree with your position. And I'm sorry for not being able to convey my thoughts as clearly as possible, haven't slept properly since the beginning of this war. Most of your points are what I wanted to say too, really. Especially about those who enforce putin's orders, they're part of this problem and cannot be overthrown easily. I'll answer your question tomorrow, need to get at least 3-4 hrs of sleep in order to be able to work properly.
God, I'm so glad to be employed by the UK company. Seems like there's even a chance for me to obtain a PhD. 4 months ago I thought that in the worst-case scenario scientific research career is closed for me.
Let me provide you with the answer to your "tabakerka" question since it's easy to answer. During the assassination of the Russian Tsar Paul 1, his murderers have used a tobacco box (called tabakerka in russian) to hit his head hard. It didn't deliver the final blow but is nowadays being referred to as a symbol of a ruler's assassination plan.
He is often being called a mainac, psychopath, and paranoid schizophrenic amongst Russians, so yes.
M-meds
FYI putin's army is attacking Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant (which is the most or at least on of the most powerful nuclear power plants in Europe) right now. There's a possibility of a catastrophe much, MUCH greater than Chernobyl. Those putin's nazis are presenting a danger to the entire world.
I don't know about stopping the war.
Looks like Putin really prepared to go till the end.
I'm sure his peace proposal is equal to full capitulation of Ukraine, and I doubt Ukranians are ready to accept it.
I feel that most Russians approve the "military operation of denazification", other half tries to ignore what's happening, and only about 15-20 percents are against. What's worse, pro-war party are most ready to use violence. So coup is also out of the question.
Most possible scenario is Ukraine capitulating after a big losses from the both sides, and Russia, poor and isolated for years from the outer world.
I doubt the sanctions will help to change people mind right now, but they will make Russia poorer and slow possible future invasions. And you better hurry join NATO, if you believe you have enough time for it... Meanwhile everyone should really think about how to deal with the crazyman who has nuclears. It's a completely new challenge for the world, and we couldn't handle it by own.
Finnish sisu (inner guts, inner strength, would be the best translation even that there ain't exact in any language) = a curse, and an advantage. Even when facing the most shittiest of odds, you are expected to continue with the best of your ability as an individual. You are not expected to give up ever. This actually might show in our suicides (we have the most fucked up statistics in suicides in a sense that the ration between men:woman killing themselves is much more unfavorable for men.) Finnish men are said to kill themselves, before seeking help for mental problems. If you understand this logic, you might understand something special about our culture. It is a great shame, if you didn't have enough sisu. This is also what makes us the most retarded country in war, as I explained yesterday. One could say, it is the most valued of all the values our culture holds.
I think Finnish men can all empathize with Russian mindset. You for example, have alot of sisu, sir. You would most prolly be much respected individual in Finland. It's determined by the shit you've gone thru without never stopping trying as individual.
I wonder alot, what he sees in the mirror. Alot.
Could you elaborate how did Navalnyi get so "far" without them trying to take attempt on his life & throwing him in jail? I've seen pictures where people was cheering for him etc. That shows atleast some level of action that's been organized.
This all is starting to make sense so fucking much. It's tragicomic. If people knew what you Ruskis are going thru. I'd expect everyone to be willing to take up even arms and come for your help (No, I'm not really suggesting for a war, no.) But you get the picture. This has been baffling me so much what does this Putin have so much against everything in west. West is literally threatening his life, in a sense, with the values.
But we westerners are painted as your enemy. So is democracy. So is human rights. Or so does the westerners think, that Russians think.
I wonder also.. could it be that.. Punya is just as evil as Stalin, what comes to prisoning his own people, but world have yet to realize it? And only history is there to teach us that? Fuck. COULD it be, that he is just more humanitarian in a sense, that he doesn't murder people. But in the history we read, how in the period of his regime, tens of millions of people's lives were ruined because of modern gulags?
I can only begin to imagine how it was in the Stalin era..
I am 100% convinced if west knew the situation you are in, there wouldn't have been sanctions to hurt people. There was leaders who were hesitant with them, maybe the ones who knew how it's like in Russia? This actually rises a question. Think of a world where people would know what you Ruskis are going through. What could the rest of the world do? Wouldn't it be an absurd situation for everyone in the world realize that Putin is the problem, but no one being able to do anything?
Well, then again. Maybe we are in that very situation just know. West
doesn't know what to do, so they are willing to try anything, to get Putin out. They are desperate for it.
The last part of your message. I think that is how the evil works in the world. It cannot stand reflection from people not accepting it. For them moral only represents threat. Maybe, just maybe, that's a part of the long explanation, why we are seeing the war today in Ukraine.
I promise once again you this my Ruski bro, no one next to me will ever get to say that Russians haven't tried enough with Punya, or in their personal lives battling with the system. It's pure survival. It's stupid. It's soooo stupid. All these years, how didn't people know? Why am I hearing this all just now? I thought all of this level of oppression has been history in Russia.
(As <- you Наглый Мистерио wondered, ^This msg also might give some more answers why westerners have been unable to help you in any real way, if I didn't answer it proper enough on earlier message.)
Will continue answering soon.
I think if he really went full insane, people next to him would've erased him already. I am afraid there is a plan, an evil plan, which is only just about to take place. I mean this cannot all be improvised. Or can it?
Can relate. I haven't slept exactly well either. I'm by my education trying to see the patterns and where the path is leading. And I see so many risks for this to escalate. I wish I'm wrong. I pray I'm wrong. But I've been cursed with my fears to turn into reality so often. Please God, let it just be paranoia.
I suggested yesterday, that maybe all of the Russia's intellectuals should move to EU. I mean fuck, there are so much brain in Russia which is getting basically fucking BEATEN for being smart? WHAT THE F-U-C-K? That could be the most patriotic thing to do, just like you've done. To stop supporting the Putin's evil regime.
I mean fuck, I welcome every last one of you to Finland, or Europe. If Russia doesn't know how to appreciate you, I'm sure Europe will.
And yup. Idk if it was true, but I think I saw some post saying that they already hit Chernobyl somehow so that it emits more radiation than before (correct me if I'm wrong.) This man needs to be stopped, everyone knows it. How do you stop him? Tell me, anyone, HOW, from the Russian perspective?
Gn!
Yup, I've realized that. And I think it might be inevitable we join NATO. People are so fucking scared atm. to be the next Ukraine.
Feel free to try to answer the question I presented ^.
I put the most hope on the people next to Putin to stop him atm. There must be someone to stop him. World doesn't deserve to get rekt by him. Fuck no. What gives me the most creeps is that he must've known west to react. Right? RIGHT? Then if he did know, and was ready to take all the losses.. why? Meaningless war in Ukraine seems like a shitty reason. That raises the question: What's next to come? Why did he go into Siberia in his bunker? To not get hunted down or.. or..
What is your guesses? Is this all just one mad man improvising and doing fuckloads of shitty crazy moves, or is there some long term plan taking which is going like he is expecting?
You seem to be based anon. What do you think about this idea?
Aamun koittaessa heräsimme maailmaan, jossa Euroopan mantereella raivoaa laajamittaisin sota sitten toisen maailmansodan. Ukraina on pitänyt puolensa liki 8 vuoden ajan ja he eivät taipuneet venäläisen sorron alle. Provosoimatta Venäjän roistovaltio loukkasi röyhkeästi ja häikäilemättömästi Ukrainan koskemattomuutta ja itsemääräämisoikeutta ja toi ennennäkemätöntä kärsimystä kansalle, joka tahtoi itse päättää kohtalostaan.
Varsinais-Suomen akseli tuomitsee Venäjän sotatoimet Ukrainassa, osoittaa solidaarisuutta Ukrainan kansaa kohtaan ja toivottaa sotilaallista menestystä ukrainalaisille kamppailussaan Venäjää vastaan!
Moraalisen kannanoton lisäksi Varsinais-Suomen akseli vaatii Suomen valtiolta, että se lähettää materiaalista apua Ukrainaan, mukaan lukien aseellista materiaalia parhaan kykynsä mukaan. Vaadimme, että Suomi kohottaisi valmiuttaan ja vastaisi venäläiseen aggressioon mm. jäädyttämällä kaikkien venäläisten viisumit ja luopumalla venäläisten kaksoiskansalaisuusmahdollisuudesta. Kansainvälisesti Suomen valtion tulisi ajaa venäläispankkien sulkemista Swift-järjestelmän ulkopuolelle mitä pikimmiten ja kehottamaan YK:ssä Venäjän häpeällistä erottamista jäsenistöstään. Viimeiseksi Venäjän mahdollisen Suomen suvereniteetin loukkaamisen varautumiseksi Suomen on irtauduttava Ottawan sopimuksesta välittömästi ja jälleen miinoitettava Venäjän ja Suomen raja.
Kannustamme niin jäseniämme kuin maamiehiämme taistelemaan Venäjän intressejä vastaan ruohonjuuritasolla ja parantamaan maanpuolustuskykyään parhaansa mukaan: osallistumalla reserviläisliiton toimintaan ja MPK:n koulutuksiin ja pitämällä itsensä hyvässä kunnossa.
Suomen kansa jakaa Ukrainan kansan kamppailun taakan venäläistä aggressiota vastaan, niin historiassa kuin nykypäivänäkin.
Слава Україні!
Eläköön Ukraina!
Aamun koittaessa heräsimme maailmaan, jossa Euroopan mantereella raivoaa laajamittaisin sota sitten toisen maailmansodan. Ukraina on pitänyt puolensa liki 8 vuoden ajan ja he eivät taipuneet venäläisen sorron alle. Provosoimatta Venäjän roistovaltio loukkasi röyhkeästi ja häikäilemättömästi Ukrainan koskemattomuutta ja itsemääräämisoikeutta ja toi ennennäkemätöntä kärsimystä kansalle, joka tahtoi itse päättää kohtalostaan.
Varsinais-Suomen akseli tuomitsee Venäjän sotatoimet Ukrainassa, osoittaa solidaarisuutta Ukrainan kansaa kohtaan ja toivottaa sotilaallista menestystä ukrainalaisille kamppailussaan Venäjää vastaan!
Moraalisen kannanoton lisäksi Varsinais-Suomen akseli vaatii Suomen valtiolta, että se lähettää materiaalista apua Ukrainaan, mukaan lukien aseellista materiaalia parhaan kykynsä mukaan. Vaadimme, että Suomi kohottaisi valmiuttaan ja vastaisi venäläiseen aggressioon mm. jäädyttämällä kaikkien venäläisten viisumit ja luopumalla venäläisten kaksoiskansalaisuusmahdollisuudesta. Kansainvälisesti Suomen valtion tulisi ajaa venäläispankkien sulkemista Swift-järjestelmän ulkopuolelle mitä pikimmiten ja kehottamaan YK:ssä Venäjän häpeällistä erottamista jäsenistöstään. Viimeiseksi Venäjän mahdollisen Suomen suvereniteetin loukkaamisen varautumiseksi Suomen on irtauduttava Ottawan sopimuksesta välittömästi ja jälleen miinoitettava Venäjän ja Suomen raja.
Kannustamme niin jäseniämme kuin maamiehiämme taistelemaan Venäjän intressejä vastaan ruohonjuuritasolla ja parantamaan maanpuolustuskykyään parhaansa mukaan: osallistumalla reserviläisliiton toimintaan ja MPK:n koulutuksiin ja pitämällä itsensä hyvässä kunnossa.
Suomen kansa jakaa Ukrainan kansan kamppailun taakan venäläistä aggressiota vastaan, niin historiassa kuin nykypäivänäkin.
Слава Україні!
Eläköön Ukraina!
i know you know russian you fucking kalapai
stop larping, vasya
Idk. I mean, what idea, exactly? Judging Russians, and arming Ukraine? And wtf is "Varsinais-Suomen akseli"?
I sympathize ALOT with Ukrainians. But how cannot one sympathize with the Russians ALOT also, who don't support the Putin's regime? Read the thread up. Say me that you don't feel empathy for their stories. There's stories of people breaking fucking bones for protesting Putin. There's stories of innocent people sitting for years in jail, guilty only for other people to be corrupt. Fuck, Putin is worse enemy for Russian people than he is for us atm. And that's been so for decades now. How do you view the question asked by one of our Ruski bros: why didn't west stop Putin earlier?
I am not sure what to think about that, else that of course Ukrainians should be supported with humanitarian materials. But war, dude, it's not exactly for me. I'm a 100% pacifist until someone crosses the border of ours.
Have they cut Russians out from the immigration system? I don't think that's true for refugees, who are in direct danger because of Putin. I think anyone who opposes the war in Russia is in direct danger atm., and I could imagine it to be a lawful reason to seek asylum from EU.
Also do you want me to talk possibly arming their enemy in here? What do you want me to say? That I want their friends killed? Scroll up. Ruskis have said it by themselves, that their best hope is for their dictator to fuck up it's regime by it's own mistakes. I am a guest to their imageboard, I want to respect them and be as polite as possible.
If I've said this once I've said it a thousand times. Russian people are not our enemy. Putin is, and Russian people are his worst enemy.
What's kalapai & vasya?
Scroll up. There's proof in the thread that I'm a Finn.
Hoooly shit. This just in: the nuclear plant is on fire. Fuckfuckfuck. Shitfuck. Fuck.
Stress levels up by 1000%.
>Then if he did know, and was ready to take all the losses.. why?
I think he has a skewed world perception. He is too old, he can't use the internet, people are afraid to tell him the truth, so he must have started to believe his own propaganda.
He must believe in his mission to restore "historical justice" and make Russia great again. Of course his perception of "greatness" is skewed as well.
As for Ukraine he probably had thought that most Ukranians are still pro-Russian and he only needs to push a little, so the sanctions wouldn't be so severe. And now he's just angry and not willing to retreat.
Also, I think he's starting to be afraid of enemies more and more. He thinks that the West tries to get closer to him, creates revolutions in nearby countries and hopes to overthrow him (last one is true btw). I doubt if he trust people nearby, look at his table. Stalin became like him in his last years.
I suspect many oligarchs and people in government are not really like what he's doing now, but they're afraid to speak and instead they try to please him, instead competing whose support is more vocal. I also hope they finally stop him, if he go totally mad, but that may be in the last moment.
I want to believe that to be the case, that all this shit is just his stupidness, and not some evil masterplan that's only just taken it's first steps. If that's the case, there's always change of him seeing his mistakes, and then backing off.
I know. Man, having listened to all of your stories, can you blame for western leaders thinking that his man needs to be gone? I've read that FSB has prevented over 10 assassination attempts on his life. Idk exactly how many of those are from his own people. Hell, it could be viewed as humanitarian project to take his life. Not only that, but both west & Russian people would do much better co-operating atleast on economical level if nothing else. Putin is making it literally impossible.
Yup, one could imagine him to be in constant paranoia. Western intelligence services aren't making it exactly any better for him. They are revealing almost live data from his close up circles to fuck with his mind, for him to know exactly that there's rats next to him. You can just imagine what that does to one's mind. In a sense he can be the most lonely person in the world.
And that's not good either. He needs sane people to advise him now the most, and try him to get grip of himself. Imagine, if he is all alone, fiddling with the nuclear button. What is he thinking? "My people hate me. All of the world hates me. I am alone. Everything is gone. I have lost my face. Should I make them pay..?"
I hope I am wrong.
>there's always change of him seeing his mistakes, and then backing off.
Not gonna hapen. No way.
Because of what Punya is doing now in Ukraine, Finland is going to join Nato. You would do the same thing if you were us, and we have the duty to protect our fatherland from Russian agression.
Punya will not be able to do anything about it. He can only blame himself for this event.
Accept it, move on. You know Finland wants to be friends with Russia. We will never attack you. You affluence is in our interests too. The wealthier you are, the better economic and cultural relations we have.
I have this fear too.
Unless there is a coup or actual revolution in Russia, nothing will happen. NOTHING. Yes, world economy, not just Russian, goes to shit, but not Putin's.
Our president Niinistö said it well just before the attack. "I have fear that when it looks he is taking a step back, he takes actually 2 forward."
Also, hello from another finn anon. We dont hate you.
Greetings.
First of all I want to be franc with you:
I am in favor of Finland joining Nato, simply because I believe it is the only rational thing to do in this situation. We must join before Putin recovers from this Ukraine campaign and starts to implements his revenge against the west. You would do the same thing if you were in our position.
If Finland stays militarily non aligned, then we will be the only possible remaining target outside of nato on the western border of Russia. On the other hand If Finland is in Nato, then Putin will never dare to attack Finland, because it would mean world war.
Also, if a world war breaks out between nato and russia, then it is in finland's national interest to be in the camp of the west. Simply because the west shares the same values with us and because the west is so much more technologically and economically developed.
>By the way, Anon, have you ever thought of what benefits western politicians and businessmen(same thing lol) are getting from the Russian government? I don't actually think that the West really gives any single fuck about the Russians. Well, about anyone except their families and bottomless pockets. I despise not the former and I do despise the latter. Our only hope is our people, and our people are dispersed and unwilling to build a strong, united society.
This is not true in the case of Finland. Even if one adopts a very cynical point of view and forgets all the talk about friendship and altruism, as your neighbour it is in the economic and cultural interests of Finland that Russia becomes as rich and affluent as possible. The more the average Russian has money and the better relations Russia has with the EU, the more we will benefit too. We are not your competitor but your ally.
Now unfortunately I believe the sanctions will last as long as Putin is in power. It's going to get very dark before it gets brighter again.
I wish all you common Russians forces to endure these difficult times. You have a beautiful country and culture. With all your natural resources and high level of education, one day I am sure you will be a very rich and happy nation.
Hi there, suomi guy, folks.
I'm a russian citizen living in Kazakhstan. It's impossible to believe for me that this shit is actually happening. I was born in the area where russian dialect has much in common with ukrainian and belarus languages. For us, ukrainians are sort of our kind of guys. We were part of common Chernigov state in the past. I remember being a child, my grandma using those specific words. Hope everything will improve. Not soon, though
I'm a russian citizen living in Kazakhstan. It's impossible to believe for me that this shit is actually happening. I was born in the area where russian dialect has much in common with ukrainian and belarus languages. For us, ukrainians are sort of our kind of guys. We were part of common Chernigov state in the past. I remember being a child, my grandma using those specific words. Hope everything will improve. Not soon, though
You really think he is that stupid? I don't know. I have a fear that this is going just how he is planning. There is something weird how he is even waging the war. Even Nato is completely baffled why is he not using his air superiority to hit actual military targets.
Can a (multi?)billion dollar man be this stupid?
You expect us to read this War and Peace on a fast imageboard?!
I agree. Even if all nukes are fired there would be enough old tech to use and Putin will start invading neighboring countries - Finland one of the first. You won't be able to stay neutral.
Hello friend / toveri / товарищ.
A lot of Russians here have helped you to get an understanding about the situation. But I want to elaborate further, and widely.
Will Putin come to his senses?
Putin - and his lackeys such as Shoigu - have built a machine. This machine no longer stops if the Putin you see isn't there.
Putin has a close circle that consists of his yes-men and people he has otherwise been close with for ages. These people aren't really the oligarch class per se, because most oligarchs have no influence.
There is a lot of complacency among these people and none of them want the kind of future that a liberated Russia would have in store for them. The machine, as it was set in motion, is no longer something that can be stopped simply like that.
What about the atom bombs?
Atom bombs are not something they want to use in wars, for what is hopefully obvious reasons. Even if they use it against a country like Ukraine, they would severely risk their relationship with China. More on China later.
The atom bombs aren't that kind of risk. But they pose a specific kind of geopolitical risk, in two ways. First is that no third party can liberate Russia from Putin and his lackeys. NATO can't just rush in there to do something like that.
Second is that they also are useful for posturing in maneuvers such as invading Ukraine. NATO probably does not believe that Russia would use them even if NATO would create a no-fly zone in Ukraine. But what Russia relies is on that "what if they are really that crazy?" chance. Even if it is one in a million, that is enough deterrence.
They are integral part of consolidating power on the international stage. But their actual use is likely detrimental.
Russia will become Iran of the east
The second integral part of consolidating power is making sure that any dissent internally cannot get to you. Dissent cannot be crushed with nuclear weapons, after all.
When you're talking about general strikes and dark web, I don't think you really understand just how hopeless it is. Anons here have tried to help you to understand by pointing out how protestors are crushed. And that's not even the stuff that guards Putin himself.
Deep web is not going to be the solution you're thinking of. See, the real problem is that it is impossible to actually organize anything. The more people you involve in your conspiracy, the more likely your conspiracy will be foiled. And in deep web, just like here, you don't know who you are organizing with. Maybe it's an FSB agent asking everyone to unite in an empty warehouse full of C4. And, according to RIA Novosti the very next morning, this was an Ukrainian terrorist attack. Everyone knows its not a terrorist attack, but it doesn't really matter.
Or say for example general strike. Called in sick during that day? Unless you have actual papers from doctor, you'll be jailed.
While you may be happy in seeing all the Russians here who express their clear objections, make no mistake: many can no longer do that.
For past 8 years, many Russians have faced a problem. Either they accept that Russia invading into Ukraine - the annexation of Crimea and backing LDPR - or they condemn it and have to accept that they are absolutely powerless to do anything about it without going to prison.
For many Russians, a new reality has formed during this time. Now they must actively come up with excuses. Putin can do whatever he wants, for whatever reasons, and there will be Russians who are already figuring out excuses. The Russian trolls have taught them that. You can't find any comfort in condemning - and living - with all of it. But you can find temporary comfort in trying to find excuses.
This also applies to many Russians overboard. You will either have to accept shame in your country, or you have to come up with excuses. Some choose the latter, because the ones that choose the former might not even be able to disconnect from being Russians. In this sense, I am lucky; mä puhun täydellistä Suomea, etkä koskaan erottaisi minua joukosta. Voin vaihtaa nimeni ja hankkia kansalaisuuden. Ja lopulta ainoastaan erittäin läheiset ihmiset tietävät oikean nimeni ja missä olen syntynyt.
About NATO & Ukraine
Don't get distracted about this NATO stuff. Putin knows that West doesn't want an actual war with Russia. Putin knows that NATO only exists to prevent his own expansion.
The real threat in Ukraine was not really NATO, but simply Ukrainians that wanted to, so to speak, westernize. Ukraine definitively would love to join NATO and so on. But that would have been a process that would have taken forever, not something immediate.
The real problem is not NATO, the real problem is westernization of Ukraine. That runs in parallel with de-Putinization of Ukraine. Subjugation of Ukraine was a long-term plan of Putin, but it would be harder and harder the further Ukraine slips into west.
The potential of having nuclear weapons in Ukraine does not really matter much, just like Russia moving nuclear weapons to Belarus doesn't also matter much. Nuclear weapons aren't weapons that care that much whenever they're next to your border or far away from it. The ICBM will happily hit the other side of the world, if it wants to.
So, what comes next for Russia?
As I've said before - Russia will be the Iran of the east. It will turn more inwards and increase its ties with China. If they win this war in Ukraine, it'll probably be cut in two. The other side that has the seaports will be controlled by a puppet government comparative to Kadyrov, where people will be terrorized by the leaders personal (and relatively well paid) army. The other one might join EU, but it will be in a really bad state and will be land-locked.
The next target of Russia is probably going to be Moldova or Georgia. It'll wait until the wind settles from this crisis, and then another conflict must begin as the machine demands for it. There is, in fact, plenty of countries Russia could still go to.
Finland is probably a "lost cause" as far as Kreml is concerned.
Finland is described as a "neutral" party here. That is a little funny - considering how strongly Finland has condemned this invasion, part of sanctions, and how Finnish politicians who are trying to be neutral get a similar treatment as Schröder did in Germany.
Finland is not neutral. Finland is 100% westernized. Any attempts to take down Finland will be met with hell. Finland, after all, for most of its history as an independent country, has built infrastructure under the assumption that Russia will attack it. That's why there are so many shelters - which are now going to get finally inspected by the army. And not only shelters, but also a modernized army.
Finland can quite freely join NATO. Doesn't really matter, no nukes will be dropped and so on. Russia can't also suddenly attack Finland either. To attack a country, you need to mobilize troops. Russia is comically exposed right now if NATO would attack Russia based on the BTG's that have been deployed. It also shows you the reality of how not concerned Russia is actually about NATO.
But even in the worst case scenario - if we were not part of NATO - it would be absolute hell for Russia to try and take. I won't lose any sleep either way.
State of Russian army
I honestly was surprised how terrible it was. I knew that Shoigu is incompetent yes-man who is more into politics than being a good military commander (unlike his predecessor). But still, it's so poorly equipped and coordinated.
Even worse - Russia still relies on naval army, while virtually none of the fights it participates in benefit from that. As long as it tries to keep its naval army relevant, that's resources it could have spent into far better avenues. But a yes-man would not do that, because it looks stupid: "But America has a great naval army, so should we!"
It's hopeless when it comes to that army - and nobody there is motivated.
China
Unfortunately, China is the only country that can stop this madness. It will happily accept cheap oil and gas exports from Russia if need be. It is only if China would join the sanctions, that Russia could be actually strangled economically. But as other anon describes, Russia remains as a "gas station". It produces so much more oil and gas products than it uses. And China has demand for all of it, especially the oil.
And for China, all of this is beneficial. It can't really help Russia in terms of waging wars, but it can provide a haven from sanctions to some degree, which it does. It's just otherwise focused on three things: technological supremacy (AI development), trade (building railroads to Europe, very smart) and spying in the West.
Toivotan onnea toveri. Ehkä tämä auttaa sua saamaan jonkun käsityksen ja mahdollisesti jopa mielenrauhan.
We understand this problem, cause we have worst suicide statistic in the world. You could uderstand it, if'll accept, that we still have too much animal and primitive instincts inside of us. Peoples adjusted medicine and technologies for living in bed conditions, but our mind need more time to adopt it. Staing in a cold and dark place for a long time is a marker for our mind, that body can't execute biological, evolutional function, such as giving an offspring and giving and providing a good conditions for growing to it. If u mentally and phisicaly health enough u continue to fight, cause u understand that living in that conditions assumes more work for living normal life. But if u have any inner problems, your mind starts program of self destruction. This is security program of peoples population, cause sick person could be proplem for living off all population in primitive times and u can't explain your subconscious about pills or psychologies. That's why u should always try to find any markers of things, where u must fight in your life to cheat your brains and continue living normal life.
>Could you elaborate how did Navalnyi get so "far"
As I told Putin tryed to show himself as a democratic leader for a long time and most of our human right and opposition organizations - is just a picture for public and foreigners, but they have payments from state or state cherity funds, so they can't really fight against government and in critical questions they agree with Putin. Not officially, but everithing understand it and people, working in this organizations understand it too. First time Putin thought that Navalnii is the same - just trying his best to show his power under public minds to have more budget for his human rights activity. And until we have piecefull times, Putin knew, that he is not in danger, cause most of people really didn't interested in his changing. But when all this shit in Ukraine began in 2014, Navalni already was powerfull enough, have big connections with West, where Putin and his friends holds money and estate and he was affraid to fight with him seriously. He warned him, by taking his brother in jail and with small periods in prison (3-30 days), but Navalnii proven himself as a man of principes and didn't stop his activity.
That's why his act of returning after he was poisoned is so important for us. He understood all the heavy consequences, but doing this he showed to peoples that he don't accept ugly russian judjement and feel himsel guiltless before russian nation on territory of his ancestors.This is exemple for all of us, but untill even Navalnii with all his supporters from Western politics and simple public can't resist this police regime, we couldn't do it to. As I told u, resisting sometimes is not a moment act, when u try to fight against so big and old system, u should prepare for a long and painful struggle.
>Why am I hearing this all just now?
As I was a naive guy, who thought, that it's impossible to take anybody innocent in prison, everybody try to ignore some problem until they face it. And this is normal, cause when u try to take any problem without your usuall life in your fild of vision, u could start a suicidal program in your brain. Just like all that mad people, that try to fight against spirits or aliens. This is one more security arrangement of our brain - don't worry bout outside problems even if it's real for everyone else. So u try to avoid any information, that could scary, deny it and take any atantion in usual life. But sometimes we mesure some danger incorrect and chances, that we could face it.
> I mean this cannot all be improvised. Or can it?
It depends of many things. Ofc he was mad enough to do things like this for a long time, but some reactions he didn't expect. Like direction of sunctions for example. Because he never expect, that western capitalists will frozen personal accounts of his not political friendas and their families. This step looking kind of suicidal for western too, because, I'm sure, that many asian and arabian investors now start to think, they could be next.
And sure he didn't expect that resistant of all ukrinian nation. Even those part, that was loayl to Russia even after Crimea stand with amo against russian army.
Funny that most of officials, prosecutor and insetigation sftuff runed out of Kiev, cause they are all product of soviet system. But not simple peoples. Fighting until death is what all slavian peoples do, when they have no place to hide on their territory. That's why Putin is can't say, that he defend slavian nation - as a same product of soviet repression system he don't really understand us and that's why we all was against this war, since first second. We know, that many simple poeples will resist and dye for their home, nothing could stop them of that suicidal behaviourб and nothing could be justice price for it.
> I mean fuck, there are so much brain in Russia which is getting basically fucking BEATEN for being smart? WHAT THE F-U-C-K?
Yep, can confirm that. Had to protect my life with a knife in my hands quite a few times. Had to live through constant humiliation and beatings due to my independent position and refusal to unconditionally share their delusional pseudo-patriotic ideas. I still remember that day when I was beaten by ~10-12 people for being too smart, literally. They really told me "what are you, a smartest guy here?"
And I really am lucky in terms of intelligence level, it seems. At some point psychologist asked my mother's permittion to test my IQ level. I'm in the top 0.1 percentile, lol.
bäämp
If you read thru the thread, our Ruski bros explaining how the relation between "brain" and "power." ALSO. Umm. He seems to be propaganda master. What if the glory of his military was always just.. umm.. lies? I mean we should question everything we see or hear from Russia's state officials / media.
But yes, it's an open question, which is something I've been thinking everyday.. alot.
Haha. You should've seen my first message before this thread. I literally fought Google Translator for hours to translate everything to Ruski.
This sums much of it, how Finns view the situation. I tried to elaborate this economic partnership also in my previous post. I also think that the reason why Punya doesn't give a fuck about partnership with Europeans, is much why he doesn't give af about his own people. There's enough resources for him to beat his smaller neighbors one by one, and keep his own people at bay. That's good for him, and his friends.
Rising up the Russian middle class by economical partnership with west = Punya and it's system losing it's power. I'd imagine. It would accelerate the democratization, hell, if there is 0 leader in west that hasn't realized yet why the stable economical ties with kleptoracy ain't possible, they must be either stupid or in the same boat with Punya. In this sense democracy is needed for Russian people and it's institutions for west to be able to trade with it. I believe this to be the sole reason why he needs Ruskis to think us as their enemy. (I've explained this 10x in this thread.)
Sounds stupid to you? In the end, democracy = threatens DIRECTLY Punya's and his kind lives. He 100% takes it seriously. He cares only about his personal benefits, being the psychopath he is.
Hey there. Yup. This is absolutely horse shit. I dreamed wars like this could've been history already. (Truth: I was being naive idiot.)
And yes, it comes close. Too close. I have Russian friend here in Finland. Also my relative is married with Russian woman. (I have only good memories about Ruskis to tell. Think about that as a contrast to what we see now. Another Russian dictator ruining his country.)
You Kazakhstan still eat horse btw? I tend to buy a horse steak every once a while I run on one. Not bad at all. Like 10x cheaper than a beef, and can be just as tasty.
Hey you! Good post, fella. Alot of that is how I've been thinking about things, feels like I'm reading some of my own thoughts (just in more organized order. :D)
I mean. I could imagine, if Punya is played out, the whole dynamic changes. He must be the last one to make up the decisions. Even that there is power clique behind him. How much is it his power fantasies manifesting we see now? One can only guess.
The thing is. Even that we don't see nukes flying yet, Putin has already opened the gate of using atom bombs. As a means of threat, and information warfare. He might be planning to use them right now, but do you really think, that world hasn't taken steps towards that direction? Even if no one meant to do it today, year from now it all might look very different. The mental gate is opening, so to speak.
This is how I've often thought about Putin's power clique. It's not the most abled people from the Russia, but the most compliant, who are not getting in his way of making decisions. And that's also what scares me.
What is still baffling me tho, if this is a LONG term plan, umm, why would he aim to be an Iran of the east by purpose? Do you mean it in a positive sense from Punya's pov?
I know all the inner resistance from Russia is hopeless. Just read up this thread. If I knew better, I would've named this "Slap a Finn with reality of Russian oppression, and please, do it hard." I've been living inside my own bubble. I had no idea how bad things are in Russia. See, I thought I was immune for Punya's propaganda. I knew he was an asshole hurting his own people. This is why I came here. I didn't know that "hurting" is a undermining word. This man is pure evil, and shouldn't exist. He is slowing down Russia's future, where people can nourish. Hell if we know, if he makes it even impossible even for a future Russia by the shit he is doing now.
And okay here's another side of it. Russia has power. That's not to deny. But think of a modern Russia, with democracy, well being middle class, less corruption, free media, and agenda that doesn't need propaganda to survive. I realize it's utopia for now, maybe forever, having heard all these from Ruskis. But damn, just think of that Russia. It would be so much MORE. You can't deny that. Now it's just about one power clique's power fantasies (and maybe his allies.) This is literally like sacrificing Russians for something they might not even agree with, in the end.
That being said, I don't blame one bit brain of Russia denying with what the Russia has become (or should I say: what is hasn't become.) This might be me, idealistic western boy mumbling, but fuck SHOULDN'T the intellectuals point the way? This doesn't have to mean that the physical strenght power fantasies should be forgotten. This hasn't happened in any country with similar power fantasies either, where brain is leading the way. It's possible, that it's so tightly knit to views of masculinity, that it's impossible to forgot about 'em.
I'm not mistaking it anymore. This thread has been a true eye opener for me. I get it. If I was a Russian, to raise my children there, I'd slap the shit out of them for even thinking a dissent thought. Or then I'd send them abroads. It's either that, or end up in jail/as a cannon fodder. All tho, these Ruskis are the only thing right now, who give me hope for the better tomorrow in Russia. This equals better life for me too, as Russia fucking it's shit up = Finland always suffer economically, and mentally (general nuclear blast shadow anxiety syndrome.) Yes, iodine pills are out of prolly every pharmacy in Finland.
What comes to west not wanting a war in Russia, you are right. But that's mostly because of nukes, I guess. Tell, me what do you think if westerners knew what Russians are still going thru? Show me one people with heart who wouldn't think that they need our help. Not necessarily armed ones, but you get the picture. It must've crossed the minds of western leaders every so often. And what comes to Ukraine, I think exactly the same, even more clear now than ever. Punya ain't afraid of war. He is afraid of mirrors coming too close for his people to see the truth, which shakes the boat. I've told this before in this thread: Stalin, known for paranoia, thought Finland as a "moral threat" to Russia. This being one of the reasons he attacked us. But we are not that many, and we don't share a language. Also our Russian minority is relatively small. In this sense, we pose a bigger moral threat to Sweden, and their immigration system (:D).
I find our flexible view about "neutrality" to be understandable atm. Look at the f*cking Ukraine, man. It's about to go to a dust. You might be able to find this funny, because for you politics seem to be thought from cold realism, where people doesn't matter. For me, it's about people, and they are the only thing that matters. Politics is by definition finding a compromise for common interests between the people inside the country. Now try to mold this thought with dictatorship, who is solely exploiting his people for own benefits and power fantasies. I cannot be "neutral." And that's only because of empathy. Fuck, I'm not a politician. I'm just a regular fella, who could've aswell been born in Russia. I just won in the lottery in reincarnation, this time.
What comes to comically exposed: Think of the 65km long convoy. Have you fantasized about 65km long motti yet, btw? Just imagine it, and Punya's face if it all turned into dust. (I'm not trying to fuck with you Ruskis, no will ill here, motti's are a thing in Finnish war history and the convoy Putin's pushing to Ukraine must be.. historical in it's length? It wakens up some very Finnish power fantasies with meme value. :D)
And yup, the state of Russian army has actually been a source for paranoia for me. Like "wtf is this some iq200 Punya's trick where he is faking to be making horrible mistakes and seeming weak?"
What do you think about China's military operations abroad. Do you think we could see some action in Taiwan next? How do you view the alliance between Russia & China? Like, is China committed to any side 100% yet? Could we one day meet asian soldiers in the border of Europe?
Your post is soothing in a sense. It's giving me reinforcing many of my previous thoughts, and showing one way to sum it all. You seem to have much of everything figured out. Let's hope you are right. Kiitti, anon. :) Feel free to chat more if you like.
Continuing to answer to next messages. Writing takes time, besides all my IRL activities.
>>
Sorry for the delay.
Hmm. Interesting. So basically, all of these who have been presented as "west-minded opposition leaders" are actually former criminals, who've turned against the system.
Do you see any realistical hope in Navalnyi, except than for the symbolical value which can possibly hasten the cultural evolution?
We are getting some news now, that present Putin kinda.. umm.. peaceful? Asking for old relations to back, with the announcement ending like "..or else.." Not sure what to make of that. :D
Nah, I could think that there's only one way for such a harsh sanctions. To act like an full asshole. All tho I've wondered that could this all be a plan for Putin to make him seem weak, so that every other leader starts the thought process "can we be next? Should we pick a side already, and commit to it for good?" So who knows.
I think you might be right what it comes to sanctions tho, that he miscalculated western leaders. He has thrown bits of shit every now and then to face of everyone, and maybe he has gotten the image, that no-one will ever react like they mean it (even that he signs were clear, that the western leaders are getting enough of his bullshit.) Did the sanctions before have any real affect on Russia?
Yeah well. Idk. Seems kinda stupid if he didn't know. All Punya needed to do is watch something else than RT, and he would've known better. I mean, I guess this doesn't come as surprise to any westerner. Ukraine seemed like super-committed to get rid off Russia. Also NATO seemed to bring them like, well, for me it seems, heaps and heaps of military resources.
I find it funny btw, that it just might be, that Punya himself might be the worst victim of his own propaganda.
Russia reminds me bit like a school class, where there are these dumb bullies, who pick up the rest of the class, especially the most smartest ones. But instead of teachers getting involved, the whole school system is to educate & push control towards the bullying getting only worse.
Would that be accurate description?
Just imagine. In other countries it's desirable for their children to be intellectuals. It usually predicts a good life. In Russia, you just might be the public enemy nr. 1 in all things. :D
Punya hasn't really done yet anything to open the "gates of using atom bombs". The heightened alertness thing? That has nothing to do with systems in Russia.
To give you an example: commands for atom bombs in US military are handed through EAM broadcasts. The EAM broadcasts can be heard in public (and there was one right after the nuclear power plant caught on fire today - but I can't remember if it was a Skyking one). It's not something they announce in public, because it just causes unnecessary panic in people. Here you can see the EAM messages: https://eam.watch/
(Before you panic about how many there are of these, they happen all the time, almost every day.)
It's far more likely the reason he said that was simply because it makes it easier for western countries to justify why they don't want to intervene for all the people who demand a no-fly zone in Ukraine. "Russia has threatened with nukes! We can't go there!"
By the way - I want you to think slightly about what you're saying. Every country uses propaganda and some form of power to control people. Be it the so-called nudge theory or riot police. You may rush to qualify that what the West does isn't so bad - I would agree. But there's no point in qualifying it. It sounds very patronizing - and you are viewed as a rather stereotypical westerner, who thinks that their saystems are perfect. It makes you really easy to ignore from a Russian perspective.
I know your intent isn't to be patronizing, but it's important to understand - that is how you will appear. Something to think about.
Furthermore, for a lot of Russians - thanks to the lakhta - West means nothing but LGBT and degeneracy. If you are active in Ylilauta - which I suspect you are - you probably have seen enough of such people in there. It is no coincidence why, for example, Russian Imperial Movement (a neo-nazi organization) has close ties with Vastarintaliike - a banned organization in Finland that operates across the nordics with local branches.
You may now understand also why such people are often call "russia trolls" even if they are clearly finnish nationalists. You've heard of the concept "hyödyllinen idiootti", right? These finnish nationalists - and I don't mean the Naapurin Pera Joka Äänestää Perussuomalaisia - but specifically these more radical ones - their goal is to destabilize Finland. Now if that would ever happen, then there is a real risk of Putin setting its sights towards Finland. Those people can become collaborators, while the strong leader who "cleans the trash" (tummaihoiset, romanit, keistä nää nyt mesoaa) will "liberate Finland". If you are a nationalist - that's okay. Maybe you have even voted for Perussuomalaiset. But just dear god, keep in mind - stay clear of things like Vastarintaliike or spamming ylilauta about mamut. Make sure that any organization you participate in has a very clear sentiment against Russian Federation. This is luckily most political or semi-political organizations in here.
Would the west want to help if they knew?
How would they? I mean - be realistic here. West can't even free Iran. What do you think it can do about Russia? Nothing. Nuclear weapons consolidate and ossify power on the international stage. Outside risks are no longer relevant in military sense. The military is shit, but the nuclear weapons are the problem.
>What is still baffling me tho, if this is a LONG term plan, umm, why would he aim to be an Iran of the east by purpose? Do you mean it in a positive sense from Punya's pov?
Why wouldn't it be? Russia is like Särkänniemi to him, without the long lines. Any joyride is available. If he gets ousted, he loses that. All the dachas, all the power he has, everything gone. And on top of that, he will be praised - as he was before.
Long-term plan is to keep this stuff going. The process is the same: first instigate civil unrest. When it happens, drop in to "denazify" or whatever.
Remember Keltaliivit on France? Remember what brought them to the streets? Price of gas. That's the real threat here. Price of gas is going to increase in Europe and Russia probably hopes for opportunities. But the anti-Russia sentiment is probably so strong everywhere that there's not a chance.
However, in the southern border of Russia, there are still countries to claim. And even Ukraine will open up some new avenues for countries that can't join NATO and where Punya can have influence.
By the way, I don't understand why you describe my politics coming from "cold realism". I've seen by now too much of what goes on in Ukraine and it disgusts me. If I was to be asked, I would support no-fly zone over Ukraine. Putin can stick his nukes up his ass - and the people of Ukraine - not only the soldiers, but the civilians - need direly help. With no intervention, after this is all over, there will be nobody to help them if Punya gets his way.
I've read a lot about the Chechnya wars. Especially from Arkady Babchenko. It's horrible. For everyone. And the horror for conscripts starts before they ever get into the war.
2ch is now very popular place to visit - reason: recent events
There's a LOT of traffic coming from Ylilauta.org
Ja ite puhun savvoo, hilijoo ja kovvoo, iisalamesta ku oon :D
En oo trolli, kuvassa rölli.
I think this is actually historical moment too, correct me if im wrong finnanons, but I think piggy meme is an actually the first major shitpost meme in Ylilauta that originated from 2ch/pol.
Its huuuge.
Its huuuge.
>Asking for old relations to back, with the announcement ending like "..or else.." Not sure what to make of that
I would like to mistake, but words is not thing that you should think directly, when you listen another one man from soviet repression system. Just today I listened another one small lection about winter war. I thing that one of my favoutite historic, told it, because he think that todays situation is really simmilar to those war:
"In the thirty-ninth year after we concluded this non-aggression pact with Hitler when we divided Europe. And very soon Stalin decided to take what he was supposed to. It was Finland. There was an amazing conversation recorded. This Miretskov, he was then marshal commander of the Leningrad military district. Stalin talks to him and says that there are two groups - here are the Germans and the Franco-English group opposing them, and that they can use Finland at any time and this Finland, led by them, can attack us, so we urgently need to think about our protection from this sudden attack and our counter-strike.
And believe me, no one listening inside is smiling, because it is impossible to imagine that this little Finland will attack this huge Soviet Union, but everyone is subject to this deep language, and according to this deep language we cannot be aggressors, we can only defend ourselves from this damned aggression, and then you know, there will be a message from our telegraph agency that the Finns attacked the military unit that is standing there."
And this is what I faced in my criminal case. Everyone who organized it knew perfectly well about the role of my wife, but they never show it. None of them said: "Well, you understand everything, it's just my job and my chief won't let her be released until we get the necessary testimony."Everyone assured her to the last that she was guilty and should confess everything. Because after all, they are afraid of everyone around them, even their colleagues, they understand that they can be recorded. They understand that in the future they may have to answer for their actions, so it's better to look stupid to the end than to let them look like a scoundrel at least once.
Unfortunally, yestarday speach of Punya was suggestion to give up. It's hard to say, but you know, I'm the one, who try to be realistic. There's no one chance for Ukraine not to be occupied. On that stage, Putin never turne around, we have much more military power and world don't want to help Ukraine with amo or soldiers a lot. Help is really small and slow.
WE TAKE IT, YOU SHOULD NOT BE WORRIED
>Do you see any realistical hope in Navalnyi
Hm, very interesting. I really think he could become a new leader of Russia. You know many tough leaders have been in prison for their principes, like Napoleon, Stalin and Hitler. This is scary list, but trust me, Navalni wouldn't be a really democratic openminded leader. We know him well, but he is much better alternative.
But I can't even imagine, how he could become free now. Look a like Putin is ready for western isolation and he don't need to play a good guy for human rights organizations. My only realistic scenarion is Putin's near circle push him to make friendship with west and he could use freedom of Navalni as a symbol of that friendship.
Navalny is political corpse. He is done, only liberashkas support him. Also Punya is Navalny's original nickname. Most people support Vladimir Putin.
>Punya himself might be the worst victim of his own propaganda
Don't ever undermasure your opponent. You'd better have many easy wins then have one big lose and lost everything. As I told, they smartly choose their words. And how do you think - is it possible for a stupid person to be 22 year the only leader of such big nation with many oligarchs, who want to have their own president, with many similar ex-kgb agents who could take his place?
Undermasured Finland was one of the biggest mistake of Stalin. And your advantage was, that you didn't have big military infrastrasture, for what you leaned on, instead of Ukraine. And I find really funny the circus they made with this Otto Kuusinen, who make the view, that he is real Finland leader for soviet peoples. And they signed contact with him, just like Putin signed contract with this "leaders" of south-west Ukrain to legitimize the invasion.
Собачьего не понимаем, так что иди нахуй.
>all of these who have been presented as "west-minded opposition leaders" are actually former criminals, who've turned against the system
Exactly. We have the same situation here after ussr broken. USSR leaved for us big military, oil and gas infrastructure. Many western businesmans came here and dealed with ex-ussr officials (who became businesmans in new formation). They couldn't managing business, cause they still had soviet mind. Only they done is selling this infrastructure to western "partners" for a cheap price. And voting for Putin was answer from simple peoples to them. Putin had big influence in Ukraine and stoped that legal stealing there too, so Maidan was the step, western leaders made to stop Putin's influence and continuing use Ukraine as a cheap store. That's what Putin meaned as "real decommunisation", when he started this operation - if they just want to sell that ussr infrasctructure, then he'll just ruine it, and that's what our tanks and rockets doing now out there at first. Our bigest tragedy, that we didn't lustrate soviet leaders after ussr broken and let them rule their organizations in new political conditions. So anyway they got more money then simple peoples and continued to rule politic here and in any ex-soviet country.
They changed my name, cause provider changed my ip, but it's still me
I didn't even know this place exists few weeks back. Now there are fingols all over the place xD
Perkele.
Впн чмоня какая то
I had already forgotten that they had already established a new puppet government for Ukraine. Does it get much coverage on your news?
How well does average Ruski know the winter & continuation war?
I remember seeing this 2002 winter war documentary, from Russian perspective. https://youtu.be/OJXEHS-L1Jg?t=250 (<- check that part what that dude is saying.)
I remember that tickling my mind alot. Like, for us it was always obvious, what was the case in shelling of Mainila. It was taught in history lesson, it made sense, it was the truth, ok? And then I see this documentary, and my mind was blown, how in 2002 there's Russian historian telling that "this still needs to be examined, but yes, it was prolly a falseflag operation." This might be one of the first big revelations that A) Russians don't prolly give a fuck B) The truth doesn't always matter. The propaganda might linger around for long, long time.
Btw, France and English offered their help for Mannerheim. He denied it. The story goes that it was because they couldn't prolly have made it in time anyways, and the fighting would've had to continue till possible break thru. But think of this exact point of history. I know, it's just a lil' Finland getting ganked casually, nothing special, BUT what if Mannerheim had accepted it? France and England would've declared war against CCCP. This is imho something that historians are speculating still, atleast in Finland, that how could've it changed the whole war. Think of it. Hitler always wanted allies from France & England.
But yea, I get it. There's two truths in Russia. The official public one, which is a theater. Everyone knows it, and their roles playing it. No one questions it publicly. And then there's the private truth. Which can be bit more colourful than the official one. That's how it was also presented in the lecture I watched yesterday about Russian political culture. (This has been great journey btw, hearing the theoretical side, and then hearing from Ruskis the more subjective point of view.)
Zelensky seems like he could use some sleep. Seriously. The dude is trying too much, and I get it, he absolutely must to. I say this with all respect towards him. I feel sorry for the man. The man is trying everything he can in his power, and now.. I'm afraid we are about to witness something horrible. Eventually. There have been some stuff about possible public executions taking place.
People shouldn't ever forget that, that even if they had the right on their side, it won't do much good when facing unfair odds. War is about where two versions of "rights" collide, but the outcome won't be determined by which of the "rights" if more right. I hope we don't ever forget that as a nation, being neighbor of Russia.
May I ask. And don't be offended. As you've seen how the exact same lie-machine works in your country to destroy your lives. How do you view to see it happen for people outside of Russia? You must be able to relate to the helplessness.
That's actually a good point. Freedom fighters or rebellions often make it to the lead. They've fought for the people, they are trusted. They represent the change, and criticism for the old lead.
Imagine if this was the plot all the time. Putin "poisoning" Navalnyi, whereas he creates hope for western leaders. Then Putin doing everything he can with brute force, knowing that his imago will be destroyed. The rebuilding of relations begins by Navalnyi getting out of prison.
I don't mean to undermine. I think Putin and Trump, in a sense, fit together in their personal profile for one thing; sometimes it looks like they act all goofy, but you get this creepy feeling that they are planning something behind the goofiness. The evil, that can detach from it's own ego, is the most scary one. You know what I mean? The one who could possibly set his pride aside. Even let whole world laugh at it. And it being a part of the plan.
Otto Kuusinen's government was always such a meme level stuff for us. (It actually still is.) It is a great example how far Russia's propaganda machine is willing to go to create illusions.
I've read some economical stuff about the Ukraine's gas pipes. That could explain alot. Also now seeing all this infrastructure getting nuked. One possible scenario, what I've thought of, is that the war ends by Putin nuking the shit out of Ukraine, and gives the dust to EU.
I can get behind the possible scenarios. But still, I view every last one of them as a symptom of a sick world. The most important objectives seem to have become either hurt, or achieve zero sum game.
WHAT ABOUT THE PARTNERSHIP AND CO-OPERATION?!? Does that exist anymore? Operating for the sake of the planet? Everyone benefiting?
Is that really so hard for us?
>тупой грязноштан исключен из беседы языковым барьером
>в приступе бессилия шлет кого-то нахуй
Нет проблем, чуваки, я могу использовать гугл-переводчик, если нужно. Приглашаем всех обменяться мыслями.
Also, anyone wanna elaborate what is going on with this dude?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JNtiO7nhmo
Is he like, umm, simping Punya that much really? Or what's the picture here?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JNtiO7nhmo
Is he like, umm, simping Punya that much really? Or what's the picture here?
I think dota is shit game if people can`t play cool and with team but is cool game when you and other 9 players play accordinate
Dont. It's better without them.
кeskinen venäläinen (voinko sanoa niin? vai tavallinen parempi?). Venäläiset ihmiset eivät tiedä paljon sodasta. Esimerkiksi minä luulin tähän päivään asti, että Neuvostoliitto hävisivät sodan. minä muistan kuinka koulussa kutsuttiin talvisotaa häpeäksi ja verrattiin sitä Venäjän ja Japanin sotaan 1904+1905
Победа того же уровня, что и отечественная 1812
Да война 1812 обросла мифами. Если бы не маэстро Панасенков, я думал, что рашка дала пососать.
Hi Finnish and Russian anons. Georgian anon here
>кeskinen venäläinen (voinko sanoa niin? vai tavallinen parempi?)
Tavallinen venäläinen. Keskinen venäläinen mean "russian positioned in the middle" :D Sounds absurd.
Hi georgian anon :) You guys had great eurovision song. Sad it got censored out from competition.
You probably know that his whole career was spent playing Russia and the West off each other - whichever was more convenient. When mass protests and sanctions shook his grip on power, he was forced to cozy up to Pynya, even though it eroded his autonomy. Now they're in the same sinking ship, whether he likes it or not.
Obviously, the utmost goal (and fear) for both of them is how to remain in power, and they'll do anything to that end. Pynya has long since tired of Lugabe's bullshit, so Lugabe can't dissent, as his instinct of self-preservation trumps all.
We're talking about entire societies ruled by fear, from top to bottom, in all directions. Both masters and slaves completely under the yoke of their own fears. Insane, isn't it?
I have no idea how the yurogays imagine they're going to bring these people in for questioning. They exist in a parallel universe.
For:
>Does it get much coverage on your news?
You already answered your question%
>There's two truths in Russia. The official public one, which is a theater. Everyone knows it, and their roles playing it. No one questions it publicly. And then there's the private truth. Which can be bit more colourful than the official one.
You linked to a film, made for russian tv. Even that they showed another point is a big step for them. For old russian people, that was educated in soviet union it's hard to realize, that our grandfathers could kill or died in senseless war, that we started by ourselves, and ofc after ww2 anybody saying, that soviets could be on a wrong side would be claimed as a fascist simpatizer. But real historican and anybody, who interested in history just a little bit know the true.
>The man is trying everything he can in his power
Yeah, Putin undermasured him, cause he is from simple family and he really want to fight with other nation. But this is the thing, why Putin hates him the most. Putin and other ex-soviet officials think that peoples - just tool for their plans. And they think that "true" politican can't go down to the simple people's level. But he surround himself with all that bandits from part of "young democratizators". You could look at one of them on that video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvlklX4_DtQ
And this one from the nearest circle of Zelenskii and not the only one with that kind of behavior. I think european tv didn;r show that examples to you. And what would become in your country with politic with same background? But europen leader decided to use that kind of people to control Ukraine, cause it's easyer to deal with them. Having them as an enemy for Putin was easy task to convince simple russian peoples that we are fighting on the good side.
>How do you view to see it happen for people outside of Russia?
We see, that politicans don't really care about peoples in Russian or Ukrain. For them it's the same tool for their interests. They turn truth in their side, just having another interest. But anyway, all they want is just using our territory. That's why Putin hates them but respect more than Zelenskii. They have equal moral orientiers. We already see, how they try to deal with Putin and his friends. This could disapoint us, but we know that can hope only to ourselfes. And that's why west shouldn't wait for Navalni to be very pleasant to it.
>>It is a great example how far Russia's propaganda machine is willing to go to create illusions.
Yeah, but that is good. Because then more lie, that more obviouse it becomes for other peoples and they start to ask questions about other things.
>Putin nuking the shit out of Ukraine
This is not the target, cause we still need ukrainian pipelines for transporting gas in Europe. As I told you, his main target was to "free: ukrainian nation. Now he see, that they don't need it and he'll just ruine military infrusstructure and organizations, that supporten nazi - movements in Ukrain.
Today I realised another one realistic scenario. If Ukrainian war for Putin - is like Winter war for Stalin, then somewhere must be new Hitler, who could be most danger for the world. I didn't find anyone better for this role, then Xi. And for sometime we have talks, that he is ready to invade in Taiwan. Ofc Taiwan is a smaller country, then Ukrain and less important, but Hitler started from Austria. And Xi could be more mad then Putin, cause he is asian and has bigest army on planet. Putin could become the peacemaker in that conflict, because China respect russians more than western world. And as a peacemaker, Putin would be forgiven for Ukraine. Maybe they dealed about it for a long time.
Cause if I remember Stalin anyway get a small part of Finland after ww2 and become acceptable partner for west. Just like then, Putin could have russian part of Ukraine and become good partner for Europe again. Because as I told u, our army anyway will occupie Ukraine and giving just one part will be looking as s compromise for west.
It's hard to imagine for me that after all Putin could "get away of water with dry skin", but I still can't believe that he is so mad. You know what was the job for foreign kgb-agents? To build influence networks for make revolutions and control foreign politics. They did it for 80 years and really know how to use whole nations in their interests and they don't really care about peoples lifes and destinies.
Cause it's dussgusting and primitive. I'd like to see, how they danced, when their brothers and fathers squized by russian tanks in 2008. This is not time for loughing at monster who still scare whole Europe.
Hi, bro. No matter what will happen and what that crazy oldman doing, we're here respecting free and independent peoples of Georgia.
And has the simping now became a national comedy? That legit seems like some proper american sit-com. :D
Hello there, Georgian anon!
How have you been? How's life? Any news? How you dealing with general nuclear blast shadow syndrome, or do you suffer from one in the first place?
Hmm. Okay. And now the dynamic between these two has been made a national comedy? :D
But yeah, anon. It's insane. If you scroll up the thread, this thread is much about us Finns trying to understand, wtf is going on with Russia attacking in Ukraine, and why can't Russian people do anything about it, even if they found it to be insane by themselves.
I've lived over 30 years in Russia's neighbor. Now after chatting here for couple of days, I'm finally starting to get a good picture. And idk if I should be depressed or what about the stories I've heard.
Yurogays? What's that?
>Yurogays? What's that?
"Euro-gays" - y'know. Along with "liberast" and other amusing Russian portmanteaus about the West, and any implied or associated faggotry thereof.
>Dw, I've understand that. I've been chatting here with Ruskis for couple of days, and they have been extremely eye opening.
I'm glad to hear it. Now we're rolling down to USSR 2.0, and it will be hard to change something, since all dissenters are leaving our country now.
>Also, good vid. Saved it on my pc. You Russians must have a thing for melancholy, just like us Finns, I assume?
Yep. I live nearby Arkhangelsk, it's enough close to Finland. The Russian north is generally for sad people, i guess.
Iske rauta.
Скорее север делает людей грустными и депрессивными.
Hmm. We've had couple of drunkards here as politicians. And then we have this (man in the pic.) He even made it as EU MEP. Which is hilarious. This dude, Teuvo Hakkarainen, is basically a gopnik, who's straight out from the middle of woods. He represents the,.. umm.. "simple Finnhood", should I say. I still don't know how he made it to parliament. Story says he sawed so much wood, that he got rich, and paid himself publicity (=votes.)
"Lets put homos, lesbians and somalians live together in Åland, and then lets just watch, what kind of a exemplary society that will turn into." -Teuvo Hakkarainen
Every so often he gets to newspapers for being a drunk and doing some not-so-political stuff. Then he publicly claims that he has gone in to treatment. He must be a nightmare for his party. But you know what? He has huge meme value, and he gets ALOT of votes. That's why they can't kick him out of the party. :D
But tbh, never heard or seen anything to imply any politician to use drugs here. I'm sure there are party people, but they do it in spaces where no-one get to film 'em. Needless to say, it would make a big shit show in the media, I'd say.
Then again. For our culture, man who fucks up, is something special. You can fuck up, and you will be forgiven, if you show penance some how. (Actually, one could say, that if you are a man too "good" and you never fuck up, people start to wait until you fuck up. There have been some that never seem to fuck up, and they might get hated for it. :D)
Yeah, Stalin took Karelia, part of Salla, and Petsamo, and cut us from the sea.
You are not the only one to hint about Taiwan. The subject is kinda unfamiliar for me, but it still makes me sad panda. I guess living in a small country next to this big invader makes stuff to your brain, and you start to sympathize alot with every David vs. Goliath type of situations.
But man, I'm kinda convinced that Putin is the new Hitler. I'd say there was much similarities with him and Hitler, and how it all began with Sudeten crisis, to the Ukraine & Crimea situation. (You know, Sudetes had "suffering" German minority, etc.)
"Once this problem has been resolved, Germany will no longer have any regional issues to deal with in Europe. I would like to make it clear to the German people that my patience with the Czechoslovak issue is over. and peace. Either he has to accept this offer and finally give the Germans freedom, or we will get this freedom for ourselves."
Sound any similar?
Also it is hard for me to picture China being this evil conqueror. They are not that aggressively pushing abroads (except Africa.) Don't they have this policy also of no military bases abroads?
And yeah, this is what I've been saying. It will be a compromise, which won't be right, but people will deal with it any ways, just to stop the meaningless killing.
All tho, atm. it's REALLY hard to picture for western & Russian relations to come back alive on Putin's period. Look, western media is spammed with dead children, dead everything, rape, war crimes, and not just only news sites, but also social media. They've brought up bringing Putin to hague (like that's ever going to happen.) I'd say Putin has lost information warfare 100-0 in west. People would be infuriated in west at their leaders, if they let this one go. West also holds as hostage huge amount of Russian assets. In this sense it has some leverage over Putin. If he doesn't give a fuck about any of those, well, idk. For now it's really hard to imagine how the relations will go on after the Ukraine's situation is over.
This is why I've said, that maybe this is Putin sacrificing his imago for Russia. Would he do that?
Yeap. So is Finland. You know it's been studied that Finland is the nr. 1 happiest country in the world (no one Finn can actually believe this to be true)? Saying has it, that it's because all the depressed ones have suicided already. :D
I saw some numbers today. 43% of the Russia's youth wants to flee for good. Ouch. But I don't blame them. So would prolly I, being the western bun-pap.
Nice pics!
That explains it. Yes, we all much liberal and faggot. It's the new view of masculinity, I'd say. Some could argue, that what is viewed as "weak" and "strong" has slowly changed in west. I am 100% this will eventually happen in Russia also. That's a part of evolving from the past.
>We've had couple of drunkards here as politicians.
Every country has this kind of clown-politics. Their role os to make picture for low-educated part of nation represented in parlament too. What I try to tell u is absolutely another. I want u to spent another 20 min of your life, by watching this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tJphAe9h0w
This is investigation of one ukrainian journalist about connection between nazi-movement in Ukraine, that rised after Maidan and new pro-european government. I'm sure it would be interesting to see. I could find houndreds of videos like that, but I really don't want to be Putin's advocate. I'm showing it to you, cause u told, that nazism - is one of the havyest crime on your country. And if u really want to know all really parts that finally assembled to this tragedy, you should know that thing too. And this movements rised, because they oriented radically against Russia. And western politics closed their eyes for swastics on their bodies and for racist actings.
This talks is very dangerous now, caus it coud show me as simpatizer of Putin, but if really interesting in all roots of this war, u should now alll the truth, why russian society loyal to Putin's regime don't really hate all the ukranians, only a small part of them. After we'll find piecefull way in this conflict, every side should think a lot about their membership and don't show primitive binary approach.
>much similarities with him and Hitler
Mayby from outside it's looking like this, but trust me he's more like Stalin. It's strange, that even u don't look to Stalin like a figure evel enough.
Look. Communists like Putin and Stalin didn't really hated any nation. They repressed their own citizens and want to grab other territories just to share their ideology. We're living here could compare Putin, Stalin and Hitler, cause they approached similar methods for slavian nation.
And if you think, that Xi don't look like a new Hitler just try to imagine 10bln of Chinese peoples, that living now in concentration camp just because they prefered another religion.
Fuck, this talks really making me tired and bringing to a bad mood. World is really unjustice place and we wouldn't have full place until this kind of politics, that looking only to their own interests, cause smart and empathy person will never want to spent his life for dirty political games. Anyway, I can advice to you another part of film I adviced to you earlier - most part of it recorded in Finland and it also contain funny moment with russian nuke rockets:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLD-zLlD764
I've seen your imageboard, and it looks like u guys really afraid of this war, if u made separated board and called it ww3. Unfortunally I don't understand finnish language, but your board has better functional and conversations out there looking much funny. I hope u wouldn't be against if some of us relocate to your board, when our government eill close this one, cause this perspective looks to be soon.
Аноны, всем сап
я понимаю, что сейчас нихуя невовремя ввиду последних событий, поэтому извините за этот вопрос не по теме - может кто-нибудь задонатить 90 рубасов? Зп 7-го числа будет, а деньги кончились. Я сам-то протяну, но кошаку пожрать не на что купить. Молю, ПОМОГИТЕ ПОЖАЛУЙСТА.
Если укажите номер карты для возврата - 7-го верну.
4890 4947 1627 9419
я понимаю, что сейчас нихуя невовремя ввиду последних событий, поэтому извините за этот вопрос не по теме - может кто-нибудь задонатить 90 рубасов? Зп 7-го числа будет, а деньги кончились. Я сам-то протяну, но кошаку пожрать не на что купить. Молю, ПОМОГИТЕ ПОЖАЛУЙСТА.
Если укажите номер карты для возврата - 7-го верну.
4890 4947 1627 9419
Different anon here as you can probably see.
>This is investigation of one ukrainian journalist about connection between nazi-movement in Ukraine
I am against violence but in my opinion any state has to use mild forms of violence against any radical groups, if necessary, to prevent escalation. Someone wanting to bring back soviet union and someone idolizing nazism have many things in common. They are both extremists and useful tools (fools) for destabilisation. Problem is that Ukrainian government probably had a bunch of more critical and urgent things to take care of, and not enough resources to take care of everything.
I have no idea about details how it is in Ukraine, OR Russia, but I know for sure every country has it's own mass of simple or poor educated people who buy into stupid ideologies, spread them and act on them, if given space and reason to do it. They also become the perfect tool for propaganda.
>about hitler and stalin
People don't know wrongdoings of Stalin that much because Hitler lost and Stalin was on the winning side. As a "winner" of ww2 soviet union took part in writing the history as they saw fit, ignoring everything they did wrong. West wasn't at war with Stalin so I think many don't have a good understanding about the oppression he caused.
>ww3 board
I guess we have a sense of humor that is a mix of being realistic and not giving a fuck at the same time. WW3 has been a joke (a meme almost) for a long time. I think it's almost like, we all are waiting and expecting Russian government to do something retarded and it didn't disappoint us this time either. The same goes for USA and China for example, but Russia of course is closer to us and the consequences are direct.
Kyllä, suomi on minulle vaikeaa. mutta kiitos.
2all
Suomalaiset, kertokaa minulle, miksi sanotte, että rikas Venäjä on hyödyllinen Euroopalle? Minusta asia on toisin päin. kaikki rikkaat ihmiset menevät Eurooppaan ja käyttävät rahaa Euroopan talouteen. ajan myötä erittäin rikkaita ihmisistä tulee osa Eurooppaa
I'm agree with everything you'h written. But I want u to know all sides of true. Putin is not a bully kind of guy, hi's actually an omega and if he see that fight is unavoidable, he try to show he'll beat the first. As an omega he doing it with all madness and destructing everything around. Just like he repressing inner opposition, same at u can see it in Ukraine. The thing, I wanted u to show with examples of cocaine official and government-supported nazi-groups is that u can't build healthy country, based on lie. We learned it best, lived under communists. And when u sniffing powder with one hand and with another taking peoples in jail for a long time for same thing, or supporting radical nazis and tell your european partners, that it's unacceptable, it will inevitably took u to disaster.
As I already told, most of russians don't support this invation and if you want to know my opinion, I'm sure Putin (if he really can't sleep, thinking bout that nazis) could kill them all by his secret agents and network of pro-russian organizations - he had enough resources for that. But west and Ukraine didn't mess with simple russian peoples, they messed with Putin and didn't messured all the consequences.
bäämp
Unironically Yandex translator is far superior to google translator when translating to russian-english or even finnish text.
Russians actually made something good. (kiddings dont get mad bros)
The Putin's Nazi claim is just stupid. there's all kinds of paramilitary or civilian Neo-Nazi groups and assholes all over the world in every single country not directly supported by governments. Ironically even Putin himself is hiring one, Group Wagner. He cares only about his own wealth and people around him.
Most likely years of isolation and only reading reports and what people around tell him has given him what we call in Finland "Microsoft Excel-blindness". He's just looking at the papers and figures and coldly making decisions based on them.
Yep I noticed that too. It is far superior
I'll watch those, I watched the shorter already, and the long movie later on the evening tho when I have more time.
Okay so now I get it better. For regular Ruskis the presence of neo-nazis in Ukraine is undeniable. But you know, I'd guess everyone realizes that there are couple of them everywhere in Europe - and by that I mean even in Russia, Finland & Sweden (alltho they are not violent by anymeans necessarily.) Here they march with their "I-am-an-idiot"-flag on thru the city, anti-fa chases and spits on them, and then they debate against eachother in the internet. This is how we see neo-nazis in 2022. I'm trying to imagine if someone attacked to us because of our "neonazis. (I'd say they might be around 0,00004% of the population, with fast calculation, and the rest of the population basically hating them.) Government is trying to ban their movement and making their existence as hard as possible so it wouldn't grow (and I'm sure it won't, because, you know, 99,9+% of the population couldn't give leff of a fuck other than despise nazis.)
When you say western politics closed their eyes to swasticas. This is kinda problematic, if you hear it from Russian state media. It is not exactly viewed as, umm.. reliable source. Even that if it would be true. There's just so much propaganda, that I think most people in the west think that "this is just another bullshit propaganda to justify war in Ukraine."
What would stop us from ending up in the same situation with Ukraine? Does the normal Ruski separate between Ukraine's neo-nazis and others somehow?
>It's strange, that even u don't look to Stalin like a figure evel enough.
Well now that you say it, IT REALLY IS strange. :D Wtf. But hey. I've been saying this. Most of us have been raised thinking that wars in Europe, well.. if they don't seem like belonging to history, it's really hard to picture one atm. Ukraine's invasion was a wake up call. I've thought all my life that the world has moved on. Nazies, death camps, commies, gulags,.. we've really thought them to be history. You know, if all your human rights activists even are playing the theatre.. how would Europeans ever know what is the situation there? We've heard it's bad. But how bad? Numbers? And even if it was bad, Putin has maid it look like it's your own business, and no one should even try to care, because "it's your culture, and you want to keep it so." Turning this thinking on doesn't happen instantly. But listen, I'm getting there, slowly. As I've been talking to you guys, I've been asking myself the question "wtf.. umm.. have I been the only dumb guy in the west or.. is the whole world blinded what's been happening in Russia all the time?" And tbh, I'm pretty sure it's the latter. No one of my IRL friends or so have had any idea either. I think I told you about the journalist who investigated "lakhta's". She got harassed so that I'm sure there are not many who'd like to experience the same. And you know, western media is basically Putin's nr. 1 target. Isn't their presence in Russia all banned?
Yeah, this hasn't been exactly "light" topic for me either. But listen,.. I think you Ruskis - the people - should be much more open about things. I think the future of your country rests on your shoulder. For now, talking could benefit alot. The situation only gets worse if the lakhta's are pictured as "presenting the Russia." And atm, that just might be the case.. their information operation in the western internet (all the comment sections, forums, even our imageboard..) has continued for over a decade, I'd say.
>it looks like u guys really afraid of this war
Ukraine comes close. And everyone is asking the same question "will we be next?" There are people still remembering that we should stay neutral. But fuck. It's hard to stay neutral. For many it equals the same situation than is going on in Ukraine.
How is your internet censorship working exactly? If there would be running a server abroads, would it do any good, or can they just cut you out?
I wouldn't mind, but.. I'm not sure if you would like your stay there. When I came here, I got to hear alot of "nazi, fascist scum!", now think of what that same toxicity might mean in Finnish board. EVEN tho I actually would recommend you to try to overcome that barrier. I think world should hear Ruski pov a much more. Russia is a many voiced country, and now it's basically all "Putin & his lakhta's" presenting the voice. That's why we hear the word "ryssäbot" (=lakhta) alot. Look:
I've tried to campaign to change the "ryssäbot" to "putinbot", and I've seen others trying to campaign too for "putinist", just to remind people that Ruski's should be separated from those who actually favour Putin.
That being said. I welcome you whole heartedly, atleast.
Answering more in a sec!
bäämp
I thought 2ch.hk got cut out from the internet? Couldn't get connected here for the whole day. Now it seems to be working just fine.
Sup Ruskis? Any news?
Sup Ruskis? Any news?
Perkele!
Hi! Greetings from St.Petersburg
How did go your day?
Are you true Finnish? How old are you? Do you now "Rakamakafo"?
So yeah. I can talk about this from 3 perspectives: 1) economy, 2) security & 3) humanitarian policies.
It's not so much just about Russians being rich. It's much more than that. It's about well being, democracy, and democratical institutions & surveillance of free media. And by this I'm not necessarily meaning "jew media" or anything like that.
Think of the world, where you - people - actually make the decisions. This is the west. For us example, there are elections every 4 years. Think of the ruler who disobeys the will of the people. He won't get votes in the next elections. This is how in democracy, leaders absolutely must satisfy the demands of their voters. If they can't do that, they get kicked out in the next elections. This is how democracy cleans itself out. Democracy ain't just about the parliament leaders. It should come as close to people as possible, that's how it works the best. Any institutional job, that uses tax payers money and has power, should optimally be voted in. Because that's how people can clean them out from the system, if they are corrupt. Free media makes sure of it - their job is to watch the decision makers as closely as possible.
1) Economy. Think of what corruption does to economical institutions & law makers. Foreign companies practically can't do business there without getting sucked in to the practices of corruption / without having to constantly watch out for it. This is weird for many, and can be unacceptable for most. Besides that, if all the money which is sucked in by corruption was fairly under taxation, it would make Russians able to consume much more. That would make Russian more lucrative as business partner. Besides consumership, if all the money is going for the people's good, people don't have the need to become corrupt themselves.
TLDR: Democracy = predictability, stability & safety for businesses & partnership.
2) Security. War is rarely people's will. I guess this is all I need to say about this.
3) Having read some of the stories here, they are heart breaking. It's rarely people's will to fuck up their own people (if this isn't then in Russian mentality, which I doubt.) Democracy = well being. If lawmakers, or such, act unfairly, they lose power.
So from the perspective of Russia's neighbor country, it's not nice to see a dictatorship which fuck's up it's smallers neighbors and causes threat, which could be a wellbeing democratic country to do business with. There's nothing wrong with the Russian people. It's the system of Russia which is fucking you all up, and partnership with the west. Well being, democratic system = the most stable economy, for people in- & outside. That's how it goes with all the countries.
Hi, anon. I'll answer your post bit later. As I told u, I'm really tired of all that war content, that we got last 10 days.
But today I got good news from my good friend from Kharkov. Week ago, he hide in a bombshelter with his wife and little boy and I lost connection with him few says ago. Today one anon posted on that board, that his friend in Kharkov died and the description of that death guy was really similar to my friend. So I decided to wrote him and after few hours he answered, that now he in a safe enough place and sent his wife with son abroad. That cheered me up ofc, cause I was really nervous of his situation all that time and will never forgive to my country, if something wrong become with him or any other peoples, that I know out there.
And btw, do u have in your /b threads for video, like this one, for example? https://2ch.hk/b/res/264349818.html
Wanna know a funny thing about the word "Perkele" ? As you might know, it's a curse word nowadays. But it's more than that. It's actually empowers your hate (it's like a magic word.)
So, it's nowadays associated with Satan. That's why it's considered a curse word. But it used to be a synonym for our ancient boss-god "Ukko." And it used to be a cry for help from the Ukko back in the days loooong time ago.
Then came the Swedes, and the Swedish inquisition wanted to root out all things pagan out of our culture.
That's how Perkele came to be a curse word. :) Now most of the Finns have even forgotten the old meaning of it, but they can still feel it, when they yell the word. It's much more than curse word. God is there empowering you.
Hey there, Ruski!
I'm a Finn yea. Check
I'm just over 30 years.
What's Rakamafo?
I should try that one out. Thanks for the tip!
Hey there!
My day was fine. Sweet, sweet week end. :) Good food, etc. How about you? How's St. Petersburg today?
>My day was fine.
Glad to hear.
St-Petersburg is also pretty fine. Well, I am living at the outskirt of the Petersburg, not in the centre. It smells burnt coffee and beer at the night and morning, probably there are some ecology problems in my area or something. Had an average routine day, and today near my house I saw a few anti-war posters (will post it in a picrelated)/
Sending you some pictures of Russia down bellow in post.
Hiiojoi halojatapäivää!
Yeah take your time. No rush. I thought I was cut out here for good, I tried to search for you & other Ruski's in Ylilauta's /international/.
Good that your friend & his family is alive, that must have been a relief for you. I cannot even begin to imagine how fucking absurd that feeling might be, own government attacking your OWN friends & their families.
And tell me about it. I've been sucked in to this warstuff in an unhealthy amounts. And I'm not the only Finn. It comes so close to us mentally, because the past war traumas are still so alive. Our fathers were raised by traumatized people, and we heard all these stories from veterans. But I guess this is nothing compared to what you are going through. Would be just smartest thing to turn of the internet until peace is there, but then again, I think in some twisted sense, I'd hate to see if no one cared about this stuff. People need to find a way for this to not happen again.
Let me check it out. I've only spent time in /ww3/ lately. That's actually why I came for the imageboards (I needed to chatter, I had a long break before that, got fed up with this the generation of young people on Ylilauta.)
How big thing is Ville Haapasalo in Russia exactly? Do you know what that meme is about (he holding the hatsapur)?
Finnish people are great. But at least one is bullshit. His name is Linus Torvalds. He broke the world and he will burn in Hell.
Большевиков...
оно самое
Люблю там гулять, атмосферно. многие говорят - гетто, криминал, мол, и ваще там тоска, а мне наоборот нравится.
Ни за что не променяю на Европу, или что либо еще.
What does it say in the paper? I can't speak Russian.. atleat not yet. For me it looks like a pretty normal "industrial" sub-urb, but yeah, maybe with a little bit of ghetto-vibes. :) (All tho none of the Finnish cities either exactly shine thru either at this time of the year.)
I myself live in small town, in province of Savo in eastern-Finland. If you want to see a movie, you need to take a 15 minutes bus drive. But life is good here. I'm not into big city life. I need to be close to the silent nature to be able to be in peace.
Aren't there a threat for all the protestors to end up to the battlefield? Or is it just the ones being thrown to jail?
Yeah, I like our people also. Nothing to complain about, except for our woman being angry and hardheaded sometimes..
Care to elaborate the hatred towards Linus? :D
Linus ain't so familiar to me, but I've heard he was noticed to be a genius in very early stages of his career. I heard that when he was in university, his post-graduation work had gotten the attention of his professors, for it being better in quality than most of the doctorate's thesis works.
Btw, thanks, nyymi. This is actually a pretty good explanation.
>What does it say in the paper? I can't speak Russian.
Translating:
Antiwar protest
_
NO WAR TO UKRAINE! 6 march 15:00. Place of meeting: Sennaya square, metro: Spasskaya
Party of Socialist Alternative
>maybe with a little bit of ghetto-vibes
As I know, that was the most criminal area in Petersburg in the 90s
>If you want to see a movie, you need to take a 15 minutes bus drive.
Well, I dont think that 15 minutes are being such a discomfort. Living in a small town is a cool thing, as I think. I wish I could emmigrate one day to small city, like, Vladivostok, or even smaller. The perfect option for me would be a village, I guess.
>Aren't there a threat for all the protestors to end up to the battlefield? Or is it just the ones being thrown to jail?
Well, the Goverment actually discussed such an option, yet only discussed but not officially suggesting the act about that on the vote.
Putin said that the military service should be a privelegy and honor to the men of Russia, but not the punishment, so there wont be anything like that I think.
Police arrests random men during the protests, puts it in the police office for a bit, from 1 hour to 15 days, idk on what it depends, and then nothing happens. The worst option if you have been caught by the police at the protest is that the police may tell to the boss at your job, and you may loose a job if you are working on goverment, like, if you are teacher, medic, etc.
>Our fathers were raised by traumatized people, and we heard all these stories from veterans.
Yeah, u know. We all raised with Victiry day as a biggest holyday in the year and we got all that veterans stories and documentary films that all had one mean - never again, we fighted for our children never know hardships of war. And these days if u promote slogan "no war" even in your social network (not even talking about any media) you'll be claimed as a public enemy and have a chance to go in jail. Pcrltd - result of mother with her kids gone in the street with this slogan. Mad sick world.
>Let me check it out
Don't worry, I already've found one https://ylilauta.org/satunnainen/130179737
Look a like I've found place, where I could spent few nights, diverting all that stress, share my collection of russian imageboard content and collect it a little more.
>How big thing is Ville Haapasalo in Russia exactly?
Not to much. But He's the only finnish, that everyone russian know. The Cuckoo - is a great drama, that can show all tragism of russian nation, living in agression to outer world, cause of low-education and propaganda. But this agression is result of big inner trauma and inner fear. Big tragedy of full nation, that push us to make mistakes one by one. U should watch if u didn't already. Actually, until yestarday, I thought he's not to famous and filmed only in Russia, and been wandered, he is popular enough and have now that business. You should try this hatsapuries, they are really tasty, even if u don't like cheese a lot. But he looking now, like a real redneck with all that extra fat, beard and oily sparse hair. I see, why he become a hero of memes.
Why don't you start off by getting your 65 kilometer long line of trucks moving dipshit.
Best regards,
Estonian
>What's Rakamafo?
Only true Finn nows
https://youtu.be/ymNFyxvIdaM
This is a Russian mem, this is how we pronounce "Rock the microphone"
>Care to elaborate the hatred towards Linus?
Of course, Torvalds is a great person, but his invention move civilization to a wrong way. Instead of space exploration mankind directed to involution. We all going back to caves and trees.
He ruined lot of companies. By the other hand he created lot of useless jobs. Finally, Linux kernel is a overblowed crap.
I love Finnish people, but hate Linus Torvalds.
A bad temper and bad-mouthed - this is about him.
I've seen Cuckoo! Now that you reminded me of it, it might actually be one of the best war movies ever. I like it alot. Russian "White tiger" also good.
Recently I watched this German movie "The Captain", which is HILARIOUS. Seriously dude, if you ever run across it, watch it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willi_Herold <- It's based on his story, which is fucking unbeliavable. :D Dude told everyone "Hitler sent me" and he got unlimited power in Germany. XD
Have you seen "Unknown Soldier"? It's our most known 1939-1945 movie. Atleast in Finnish netflix you can see it. Maybe the fact that it's been done 3 times by 3 different generations, tells something about it's meaning to Finns (and before the movies the book of course.)
I respect Ville Haapasalo alot. ALOT. When corona hit, and actors lost their jobs, what did Haapasalo do? Opened a hatsapur-bakery. In my worldview that's something in itself, because many of these actors are all for clout and glamour. Ville seems to be just a regular fella, who have ended up infront of camera somehow. :) And he is okay as an actor aswell.
You should check this out also: https://ylilauta.org/videot/ (That's for videos specifically.)
It's not a discomfort. For me it's a positive thing only.
Btw, for the last post alos
I googled Vladivostok, seems not bad! An ocean city?
Do you see alot of crime in Russia in your every day lives? I mean drugs, robberies, etc.?
What city should I see from Russia? Like, which is the first place to go if I travel there in future?
Damn these captchas of 2ch.hk btw.. not exactly the clearest ones. :D
>What city should i see from Russia?
That is the wierd way to put up words, but anyway-does not matter, they all the same. Except for Saint's-Petersburg, but it is just a Vienna in the north. The rest are all the same.
>I googled Vladivostok, seems not bad! An ocean city?
Yeah, Vladivostok located on a shore of Pacific Ocean
>Do you see alot of crime in Russia in your every day lives? I mean drugs, robberies, etc.?
Well, not so much, the most often problem that I see are the drugs. I mean, the drugs are literally everywhere. You go outside, and theres a telegram channel link being writen on a wall, where the drugs are being sold. Then, you walk down the streets and you notice that these links, or, how we call them, tags, are literally everywhere. They are on the banners, on the walls, even on the asphalt, lol.
And what to say about robberies, well, most of them are being commited by migrants and in the night, but I did not saw any in my life. Last robbery about which ive heard was about that some schizo tried to rob a sex shop, killed the cashier and stole a dildo or something like that.
>What city should I see from Russia? Like, which is the first place to go if I travel there in future?
Well, depends on what do you want to see. For example, if I go to travel for first ofc I like walk for some hours near famous landmarks, and the rest of travel I spend visiting downtowns and outskirts of cities to see how people live in there. If you visit the Petersburg, then you surely must spend a day walking around the city's centre, thats the base of average tourist route, and then you can visit the Lakhta, or go into Leningradskaya oblast(region nearing the petersburg) and visit the palaces of Russian emperors in Strelna, Peterhoff and Pushkin. Thats what all the tourists do when they visit Russia
Oh. :D Btw, when you say "True Finn", you are implying for a Finnish political party, which is, umm.. it divides opinions. Like all politics. (Those fuckers have ruined the term True Finn forever, and I'll never forgive them for that.)
Bomfunk Mc's were a BIIIIG thing back in the day. BIG!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEYI2tYGMzw
Wut is this :D Alasti = naked in Finn. Two kids talking about Kreml's propaganda?
Oh, I don't understand much about programming or anything related to computers. If someone asks, what kind of a computer I have, pretty much all I have to say is "laptop." :D (This is my curse, having a nerd brother who knew all things related to computers, so instead of learning about them myself, I always asked him to take care of things.)
And PS: I forgot to say in last msg: You Ruskis don't seem bad either! Your leader just is full psychopath. You'd deserve much better one.
Hmm. All the same? I've always imagined Russia to be this big big country, where there are huge differences between the different parts of the country.
Are you implying that I'm some sort of spy? :D
Doesn't the police chase the dealers? Fug, here the police is so efficient, that drug dealers are so paranoid, that they wouldn't ever do that.
We've had this police legend getting born here lately.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jari_Aarnio
>smuggle 800kg hashish with criminal elite
>earn cash & get elite snitches
>clean the streets
Basically this dude's police unit did some sort of record in all the nordic countries for confiscating so much drugs. All he had to do is smuggle some hash with them.
:D Well, that guy must've been very desperate for a dildo. So you say it is safe for a tourist walk around all alone?
Thanks for the tips btw!
>Are you implying that I'm some sort of spy? :D
No, I just uploaded the video to send a link to it to the chat. And so I hope everything will be fine for you and you will not be sent to fight in Somalia. You seem to be all positivists in Finland and you have Finnish vodka.
Well, the good thing is, that if we are to join NATO, then I'd imagine we turn into a wage army little by little. Then only people who support meaningless wars, will go to army. Might not happen at my life time. And we also might save some money. So it's not all negatives.
Bad thing is that we might end up as a crater & nuclear blast shadow because of that decision sooner or later. :D
Well actually, we are very melancholic country. Internet is a place where Finnish people come vent off their.. umm.. symptoms. So it might seem that way, but positivists? Idk. (We are said to be the most happiest of all countries, but no one believes that in Finland. Actually everyone thinks that someone has been mistaken or something.)
And trust me dude, I've been all but positive for the last days. This war has totally got on my psyche. I've been doomscrolling in unhealthy amounts etc.
I wish I had vodka, but the liquor store's all closed and have to wait till monday till they open. :( I hope you Ruskis good life also! There must be something good coming out of this all.. right?
>This war has totally got on my psyche. I've been doomscrolling in unhealthy amounts etc.
>MUH MY FEELINGS
GET OUT, FRISTIOID
Hey there.
Wtf is fristioid? o_O
>I respect Ville Haapasalo alot. ALOT
Yes, we love him too. Hee always play roles of a good intelligence guy, and as we don't know any other finnish actor it formed in us vison at all Finland pupulation. So maybe u should award him any award of friendship and piece for his deposit in our minds.
And thatnk u for recommendations. I think nearest years we'll spent more time at home because of all nightmare, that will wait us on the streets and I'll need something to watch.
This is estonian language. They are nazis a lot in relation to russian. They have many soviet russianspeaking families out there and they hate them as a soviet heritage, cause they suffered a lot of soviet regime. Most of them were Hitler's collaborants in ww2 and they still in honour of their fascist soldiers. As I told u, those peoples on Russia, who interest in history know all torture of soviet regime and I can't claim estonians for that view of us. The scenario is the boy, who asking local girl "where's grocery store?" on russian, and she's speaking with him on estonian for humiliate him, showing, that she don't understand him, cause that's what they like to do with local russianspeakings. But she become polite and help him on russian, when she knew, that he is just a russian tourist. That is kind of nationalism, that west wanted to settle in Ukraine. And here's we've returned to our theme.
>When you say western politics closed their eyes to swasticas. This is kinda problematic, if you hear it from Russian state media
U know, I don't really watch russian propaganda, cause I really want to know the true, that sometimes complicated and we don't like some of it. As I told u, I see Putin only as an enemy for my freedom. But problems with nazis is much more then it's in other world.
This anon is totally right, but it's only surface point of view, which is enough for any not-involved foreigner. We also have nazi. And government even tried to colaborate with them in 90s and 00s. And after the fell freedom, they started to do criminal, killing immigrants and record it on video. So FSB (modern KGB) took them all in prison and tortured until death. Some of them made suicide, when knew that their collegs under torture giving information about criminals they did. So now we have only "smart" kind of nazis, who promote the idea that real russians - is our great culture, scince and leterature. Nothing about clean of blood and race. I think it's only acceptable kind of nationalism, if peoples still need it on animal level of mind.
But in Ukraine nazis got state support as a group, who can show to population real relation to russians, cause as I told u, russian connections didn't let modern ukrainians reformators steal money from state budget. U could accept if government let nazis just exist is your country and make their own carnaval with all that unifirm and slogans. But if government take them guns, use to press opposition and let them illegally humiliate big part of your population, it will become big problem sooner or later. Pcrltd - azov batalion, what picturing now as a heroes in western media. And on the video - result of their holy war against russianspeaking regions of Ukraine since 2014. They really bombed civil cities and tortured and killed locals, just because they didn't want to accept new government that become as result of revolution (=illegal, according to law of any country). A soviet minded peoples they didn't fight against revolution and waited for government for stop it. But after revolution they stayed alone with anti-russian government, that hated them a lot for simpatizing russians. With Putin help that regions started to fight against new ukrainian regime and since 2015 this conflict was conserved regions got disputable status. And if u think, that Putins invation was avoidable, try ti imagine what this radicals could do if Nato gave them nuclear weapons, cause another way they couldn't fight against separatists, supported with Putin. And if U think that supporting separatists in other country is not right, I'll tell u, that west and Ukraine supported Chechen separatists. Even after they done some absolutly terrible terracts against civilian peoples, they supported them with amo, or many ukrainian separatists fight on their side against Russian state army. But west payed for that too and will continue to pay, cause they welcomed some of that separatists as a victim of Putin and they did some terracts in America and Europe (such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Marathon_bombing or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Samuel_Paty).
In my point of view, both sides cost each other and protecting their own wrong interests. And the worst thing is in victims from civilian peoples. But I hope, I calmed u a little by describing, why Putin and any other russian see difference between you nazis and ukrainian.
>Pcrltd - result of mother with her kids gone in the street with this slogan. Mad sick world.
Forgot to take a pick. Yeah, they took them in police station, leave there for a night and penalised with money just for banners with slogan "no war".
fucking lol'd
also "Kuka" - is request for source?
I think I contextually understand what she's saying, even though I have no idea WTF she's saying
The video in
is mocking how Estonians treat russians. The girl is mockingly talking to the Russian boy in estonian so he would not understand her, but when he says he is a tourist she suddenly starts speaking to him in russian.
Then when he says he thought Estonians were all nazis, she says it is kremlin's propaganda
He should be awarded, yes. Just for the winter war doc I linked you earlier I'd be willing to award everyone involved.
https://youtu.be/2HLpBRswZcU?t=54
I don't mean to offend with the video, or what I'm about to say. But as Ukraine is going thru it's democratization process, it might need nationalistic forces. Organized ones even. This doesn't need to and SHOULDN'T equal to neo-nazis, and I get it 100% why it's triggering the Ruskis. Actually, if Ruskis are going to get democratized one day, it just might need nationalistic grassroot forces just like has been happening in Ukraine. Something to overcome the corruption.
Needless to say, the videos you posted earlier about them kicking citizens or minority.. not good. Not good at all. Also needless to say that not one nation needs forces like that, obviously. But as if I picture Ukraine with similar-to-Russia backgrounds, there must be lots of corruption. Who's to keep them at pay, if not the most passioned "lovers of the fatherland"? To be clear: there needs to be the forces that have gotten fed up with the old problems. That might mean hate also towards the old corruption. I could also imagine this to equal losing power in Ukraine for Putin.
That being said, Ruski's neighbors should know better. Zelensky is about to learn that, paying a horrible price for it. The cold hard fact is that if you are not part of the NATO, and you are Ruskis neighbor, you should respect the fact that for Putin human life is cheap. But can you blame the man? Not really, no. He must've felt that right is on his side 100%, this feeling also probably growing by alot when you see whole world showing moral support.
I wouldn't say that Azov battalion is all that cheered in western media btw. Atleast not in mainstream media. The nazi allegations were there many years ago, and our media is green-leftist for the most part. They don't vouch for anything like that. But then again, I can't speak for all western media. As you might've understood, our objective has been tried to stay as far way and as close as possible to west & east (leaning on west tho alot, because Ruski is a threat, west ain't.)
I want also to say, that I don't want to undermine everything you say by any means. And I get why Putin's pissed. Ukraine starting to lean to west must be a strategic catastrophe in Putin's eyes. And hell, would I even be surprised IF USA wanted to push & lure Putin into the Ukraine for a trap? Not necessarily.
It took over 100 years for Finland to go thru the process which is known as "Finlandization", for us to be here today. I see this war almost like 1918 & 1939-1945 Finno-Russo-wars. Our president has been known to say "cossack takes everything, which is loosely tied." You know what I say?
Also this just might play a role in the Putin's superpower fantasy. Russia has probably lost the game, and Putin could've been the last one to stop things sliding out of hand. And this is his desperate attempt to slow the process of Russia losing power, without realizing, that it's inevitable.
One of the Ruski anons lighted up an idea on the very early posts on this thread. Could Russian empire be build back the way, that people would actually want to join it? In this sense you could've everything for it, but lacking a working system. I think this is what infuriates Putin. He knows it all to be there, stars have been almost aligned for Russia in it's history, and now he tries to achieve the success with brutal force. Rest of the world is playing the same game, but with money & well being. He might see western leaders as psychopaths just like himself, but he cannot understand that they actually have something for their people. Or then he simply doesn't give af.
Lol. I almost felt a sorry for the guy for a second. Think of it: all you and me have to do is feel pressure about 8-16 and taking care people next to us. He might feel a pressure to restore his country to old glory. He seems to have hatred towards some Russian ex-leaders. That might be explained with the stars that were aligned, but all the ex-leaders kept fucking shit up. Now if the old parts of empire get too independent, the imperialistic Russia power fantasies are history for good (I'd say they already are, but there just might be that tiny bit of hope what Putin sees.)
And tbh, I've felt sorry for the guy already. Sometimes he seems to be surrounded by idiots working for him. Atleast sometimes I get this idea of him having some iq200 plan, and him being superfrustrated because he can only have some idiots working for him. :D I think this is what we've seen happening with Ukraine. Let me guess: there is a possibility of the army is fully corrupt also. It's been lead by people, who've possibly taken money alot into their own pockets, and screwed the state. Putin might not know the true power of the Russian army, he has depended on the reports of his minions. And that's his mistake, what we see manifesting.
>Anyone wanna talk politics?
Не, просто покажи сиськи твоей мамы шлюхи.
Forgot to clarify this:
The problem that I told about before: If your state media floods people with propaganda 24/7 in all things, people start to suspect everything. This is the state where western people are today. Even if your media claimed something that was true (nazi things of Ukraine and such) they all are taken as propaganda. People know not to trust Russia's media. This is a problem, as even that it'd be truthful for once, people easily regard it as propaganda.
And now I guess we've reached a point where only the truths matter that do not support Putin. Can you blame western media for it?
Дегенерат, хватит переводить гуглом свои дебильные посты.
Показывай уже сиське твоей матери, ебана.
I'll go to sleep now, I'll catch you up later. If the 2ch.hk is cut from internet, you can find me from Ylilauta's /international/.
Good night!
Good night!
>Ironically even Putin himself is hiring one, Group Wagner.
Thats what western media says. Curious, my colleagues also told me that Wagner's Group is full of neo-nazis. While in reality its just full of different kind of weirdos and their main ideology was always the money.
Sure, it could be.
Then again, why is Utkin"s callsign also "Wagner"?
When asked, he says because of the composer Richard Wagner.
Just happens that Richard Wagner hated jews, wrote about it publicly and was the "approved" composer of late Third Reich.
It's just too many coincidences to me.
I have visited Vyborg(Viipuri) few times and Saint Peterburg three times. I really like Saint Peterburg. It just so historical, bohemian and the athmosphere there is very unique.
Not really, it is just the leftover of german born russian emperors who thre trying to prove the world the european status of they domian and couse they were germans they pick Vienna as they frame of references. Which is really not a bad choice, as you have already saw.
>All the same?
All the same. All thanks to the reds and they love of functionalism and equalaty. Everybody everythere should live the same party confirmed way, in oarty confirmed buildings, in party disighn citys, towns, villages. Not like the planning very differens anyway. You will see the same five store living buildings in town of 20 000 as you will see in Moscow. The only difference is how many of them you'll see around you. And no, if you'll.go in not slavic majority republics or even in independent one's you will see the same 5 store building in Armenia and let's say Iakutia.
I have been both in Vienna and Saint Petersburg and I like the latter more.
>You will see the same five store living buildings in town of 20 000 as you will see in Moscow.
Хрущёвка :D
You are the first person since 60-s who said "хрущевка" and smile at the same time.
Cool. Ever been to Versailles ? General knowledge that Petergoth was our version of it but does it really it is equal ?
>All large empires suck for the average common Joe.
Hedonism is cancer
>You are the first person since 60-s who said "хрущевка" and smile at the same time.
Sorry didn't mean to be rude. It's just funny that there is this same type of building everywhere.
>Ever been to Versailles ?
No i haven't been there.
>to be rude
You are not rude, silly.
>It's is just funny
Imagine the fun we having while living in them.
>it just might need nationalistic grassroot forces
I think that if any country need to build up healthy nation, it need to cleaned up of any movements, based on hate. I already told u, that there is a big difference between Putin and Hitler and between Stalin and Hitler. Soviet idea was out of nationality. They wanted to build the world with no nationalities but only with one ideology, that's why chinese and african nations liked us more then west - we first from white nations started to talk with them on the same level, not from position of Empire. And that's why Hitler as nationalist choosed USSR as a first enemy. Nazi movements in ex USSR country raised, cause peoples can't accept that soviet legasy is in their mind - not in the russians. The fact is that longest period of soviets existing, especially when it was hardest repression for local populations of small republics, Soviets ruled by georgian and ukrainian leaders. Same as it could be with Kuusinen, if USSR won Winter war, ukrainians and any other nationalities repressed by their own nationality local communists. But it's hard to realise, that in your problems could be in charge your own peoples so they choosed russians as a phisical realisation of their soviet mentality problems.
And the thing, that I want to explain, is that you can't separately ruin soviet legacy without ruining fascism legacy as the only antagonist of it. As I told u, that was not just simple corruption, that helped ukrainian nazis to avoid prison for all this years? After my terrible situation, I didn't watch russian pro-government media, cause I learned on my explain, that they all lie. But I watched enough different ukrainian media, cause they represent different points. And most of them telling that problems with nationalism becomes too critical.
Same as we couldn't even imagine, that soviet style of management can be returned, peoples on the west must understand that fascism can be returned too. And u'll see it nearest years. World crisys now is unavoidable and fuel prices already increased it two times. Also Russia exportizing some rare metalls, that using in electrinic production. So u'll see much higher prices on everithing after couple monthes, when all the reserves will be empty or closer to it. That will follow new regulation mechanisms of economy and social fields in all countries. And some of them would be mosly like it was in Hitler's Germany in 30s. I would be happy to mistake, but my general advice to u is to make all big buyes, such as gadgets and car. And transfer your fiat money to gold or something like that. I am lucky enough now, cause I bought new macs to me and wife and a new Camry last summer. So now I just need to spent more money for food and clothes.
>Zelensky is about to learn that, paying a horrible price for it
Zelenskii could be one of the biggest victim of all that pro-nazi western reforms in his country. He's literally those, who that nazis hate the most. He is from eats part of Ukraine, he is russianspeaking. Even his father supported separatists and posted pro soviet pictures in his social networks. Voted for him 3 years ago was bright answer of ikrainian peoples agains that new direction of ukrainian politic. But as I told you he is man from simple family, not real politic. He was not ready to play oall that dirty games. And after they scared him, that nazis will bring him out, by another one revolution, he gave up and started to colaborate with them. The result of this colaboration u can see on the pic - his raiting false down more then two times. And this is without even opinion of those parts of Ukraine, that was occupied by pro-russian separatists. If u telling that every nation has right to choose it's own way, u can't just ignore this fact. And the big problem of that peoples, that by this brutal invation Putin ruined all their efforts. After I got some more information during this days, I can tell, that Putin didn't have another choice. But he let them to catch him in this mousetrap by himself with all his politic during last 10 years and strategically I'd prefer him to lose his leadership here.
Anyway, Zelenskii is random guy here. He is nither a politic nor an army leader. So in critical situation like this u'd prefer the guy like Putin with to lead your country (if we forget, that he is the one, who let this situation began).
Zelenskii already surrounded himself with ciminal elites. You can see on the vid, how his friend now escape the country. The same time, they didnt let civilians to escape occupied cities, cause they want to use them as a live shield. An SBU (ukrainian secret agancie) already tried to kill him twice. This is information from Bellingcat - agancy, that investigated Navalnii poisoning. So I think that information could be true, even more SBU has same soviet roots and use same methods. So no matter how brave he looks now, I', afraid his days will finish soon.
I'm really want everything gone another way, but I'm living and investigating this for a long years. Most of this fact are very comfortable for russian propaganda. But propaganda today, in century of internet and cell phones can't lie in everything. It's just try to show only comfortable side. The fact, that Putin is bad guy is a fact, but without this ugly support of western "democratizators" and without western leader dealing with him all that time, this situation couldn't happen.
Good evening, fellow Ruskis. How are you today? Any news?
Sait ylipuhuttua. I just might start my journeys from Viipuri, once this situation clears out. Imagine if I went to Ruskiland now, and Punya announced the martial law. :D Would I be trapped there?
I also wonder, do they sell viipuri's rinkeli in there?
Thanks for the pics!
Do you Ruskis spend alot of time in nature? I could think myself needing that alot, if there was concrete everywhere around me.
Okay, thanks for clearing that one out. I think even we have something like those in Finland(?), but I think it's the "old" industrial suburb style, and they getting replaced by new ones. Our architecture has always got of the influences from Ruskiland, and even industries, I think.
Sait ylipuhuttua. I just might start my journeys from Viipuri, once this situation clears out. Imagine if I went to Ruskiland now, and Punya announced the martial law. :D Would I be trapped there?
I also wonder, do they sell viipuri's rinkeli in there?
Thanks for the pics!
Do you Ruskis spend alot of time in nature? I could think myself needing that alot, if there was concrete everywhere around me.
Okay, thanks for clearing that one out. I think even we have something like those in Finland(?), but I think it's the "old" industrial suburb style, and they getting replaced by new ones. Our architecture has always got of the influences from Ruskiland, and even industries, I think.
>I almost felt a sorry for the guy for a second
I already told u, that when we finiched this situation with my wife, I empathize my enemies. Cause they don't know another world, another methods and real feelings, cause they were educated to deny reality and work for future idea.
U was correct bout
>He might see western leaders as psychopaths just like himself
couse we see now the real fall of 20th century. All the biggest countries heading now with old shizos like Bide, Putin, Xi or Merkel until last time. All that last tragedy with wars and coronavirus showed that they don't really ready to solve problems with modern methods. And the problem is that until they phisicaly could rule their countries, simple peoples cursed to be victims of this methods.
> I just might start my journeys from Viipuri
You MUST visit Kaliningrad. Its separated part of Russia, don't even have common border. It's ex-german city with german architechture and light climate, but all settled with russki brothers. And u could not worry bout any problems. We love foreigners and relate to them like an earth gods, just like all asians. And to relate to anyone of them bad would be suicudal for Putin and any other offical in present situation. BUT don't even try to cross the border with something look a like banned drags, even marijuana oli in vape. As I already told, it's very dangerous, even foreigner.
Look, first of all I want to make this clear once again. I'm not here to contradict you, even it might seem like it. I'm not claiming that I'm right or you are wrong. I want only to learn from your perspective. Even if I couldn't ever agree with the reasons, I want to hear & learn your perspective to understand it. (Just so you remember that I respect you.) :)
And I agree with that, that no one really needs any hate based groups in healthy society. What I tried to tell is that if people are being oppressed, that it might, in the end, be the most patriotic, cynical & hateful people who get the revolution done in the end. No one can expect Ukraine to be at it's ideal state in the very beginning. There's lots of mess & shit left before that. Btw, I've always wondered if these nazi-allegations were true, why wouldn't a jew try to throw them out? But yeah, what you just said (the nazis threatening with another revolution) explains alot. But could it just be that without's Putin's influence, Zelensky could've free hands & focus to throw the nazis out in the first place?
And look. Listen. This might sound stupid, but I think it this way. Zelensky's has huge symbolic value for Ukrainians. He was an actor, and before his presidency he had probably already written his way into people's hearts. Him being the "simple man" might in the end be the thing for Ukrainians. There's huge change he will lose his life. He has been never given a real change for his country without having to focus fighting Putin & corruption. But he wanted a normal life for his people, just normal democracy. As he dies now, think of what happens to his symbolic value. I think it will only grow. That being said, it might be just his destiny, to lose the war & die for his country. (Btw, I've also read that he had survived 3 assassination attempts already. I wouldn't exactly like to be in his shoes..) That's exactly like how Finlandization started. There's alot of bitterness in the realization that you are living in the neighbor of powerful military, which has it's own stuff affecting your freedom & rights.
I think the realistic part is that there needs to be alot of shit, before Ukraine reaches healthy democracy. It's people might need to see with it's own eyes, what the extremist groups from both ends might do to their country. I am afraid of if Putin places his own puppet there, on structural level Ukraine falls back to pre-2014, but the Ukrainian hearts are in 2022. I'm legit interested to see, how things play out, and I sincerely hope to see Ukraine getting it's shit together on my life time.
Btw, we already have another "Otto Kuusinen's" here in Finland. Backed up by all the possible russophiles from our country. It's actually scares me alot. It's not a communist party this time, it's more like, umm,.. well. Think of the Lakhta's narrative. (Corona propanda, hatred towards government, EU, NATO, hate towards everything that comes with traditional politics, all that what lakhta's spread in west.) The party is manifestation of it. (If you want to learn about it, check VKK.) All tho, just like Kuusinen's party, VKK ain't getting much of any votes at all. But it is enough to be concidered "inner threat" by our security police.
Btw, are Russians taught that we won winter war? Wut? Or do you mean that we got to have our indepedency? (That's how it is taught for us, that we lost and paid horrible price, but we got to keep/won our independency. Goes for both winter- & continuation war.)
I think that big part in western media play is that they avoid trying to support Punya in anything. It might be their mistake also.
What do you think western leaders should've done then? Remember, for us he represented the modernization & democratization of Russia for a long time. Hell, we even saw him participating in some "gay activist"-type of thing in Finland. You get what I'm talking about? He seemed to have used ALOT of resources for west not to stick it's nose in his doing.
And yeah, trust me. That's how it goes with these sanctions. I could imagine Finland's GDP capita takes the greatest toll of all EU-countries. I'll heed your advice and start to think all the material I need to buy it now.
Answering to next msgs in a moment!
I hate russian boomers so much. They are way too stupid and terminally ill with soviet style of thinking. It's literally a cancer generation of shit. I despise them. They are the cause of all this shit happening today in russia. Most of them are corrupted by putins propoganda and they are main part of population which supports him. I think russia will be better place only when most of 40+ shit people just disappear.
>Do you Ruskis spend alot of time in nature?
Yeah, most of us a almost have to, the nature simply never far away. I always thought Finland is the same way-the sea of forests with islands of civilization.
>replace by the new ones
Is it the brick towers like in Russia ? "Путина" we call them. They even worse than "хрущёвки". I really hope it is not them you have.
>Our architecture has always got the influence from Ruskiland
Really ? Never would of thought. Always thought that you have private housing over there.
Do you know this dude (pic)? What do you think of him? (I've heard he has alot more visibility in Russia's state media than our PM, which is ridiculous. He is basically condemned as full idiot & worse-than-traitor in Finland. I could imagine him to have comparable public imagine to Otto Kuusinen, except that this dudes seems 100% sadist.)
He warned Finns about the 15 years of prison, just like you Ruskis have been warned, for contradicting Ruski propaganda. We also got the news about possible public executions happening in Ukraine. This same cockhead tweeted after that he will send greetings for that "victory parade" to every "NATO-troll" in Finland (NATO-troll = possibly anyone whose vocal about Russia's propaganda being absolute horseshit.) So he basically threatened to kill Finns for supporting Ukraine.
Now think of what this does to Finns, and how they see visiting Russia. Most of us realize that this idiots doesn't represent Russian people, but then again.. Think of how this all seems to us, in the combination we've seen in Ukraine. Even that I get his & lakhtas hateful tone being full of shit, this even affects me (this is why I asked if they can arrest foreigners etc.)
I've heard that his kind of "useful idiots" are on the payroll for Putin's regime, spreading bull-shit 24/7, so that the "real assholes" can work without anyone paying attention to them.
Kaliningrad is a German origin city? Hmm, every day something new.
But yeah, I'm 100% going to visit Russia one day. :) I've traveled enough to take the foreign laws to account, these all propaganda-laws just kinda worry me a bit. I've tried to combat the lakhta's everytime I see or hear them in forums etc.
I've got the picture. And there's always hope in future generations for change. I've said it many times in this thread, that what you Ruskis have said here, has been a source of hope for me, even if you couldn't affect things right now.
There must be some intellectual youth movements even trying to rise up, right? In the arts, literature, somewhere?
That's exactly how it is. 80% being forest (iirc.) Rest are lakes, and then tiny bits of population spread everywhere. :)
Trees have been always said to be the "green gold" for us Finns. Lumber & tar has been the only natural resource we had to get in the global markets back in the days of industrial revolution. Hell, the big forest companies still make big part of our GDP (even tho the use of paper has been declining, there might be some new hope arising with the green-wave. You know, the metal & plastic has to be replaced somehow.)
Try to google "Finnish multi storey building", and you might get the picture. Tho as I said nowadays, things have been going to more modern side. Back in the days in 70-90's there still were alot of these grey concrete blocks with them being build only "efficiently". I think that style originated mostly from CCCP, but I'm not 100% sure (you know, Russia has always been a big partner for us.. until today.)
And yes, private, but then again all tho we have open market economy, and always have had, the government supports the living (the more what poorer you are.) This might also mean that if you are poor enough, the government provides you with everything you need for living (no luxus, no fun, but the absolute basic needs.)
What comes to architechture, it's a mix of west & east, old & new. There are many cities where we have these old buildings (even wooden ones) are being protected.
OP, it seems that in order for you to better understand the flawed system that has formed in Russia, you should watch this film:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACKSM0fH6fY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACKSM0fH6fY
Термоядерная война
когда?
когда?
Thank you for the recommendation. I'll check it out, just like all the recommendations posted here. :)
It's a good thing, that your art ain't sleeping. It gives hope.
Хохол, у нас всё нормально. Живем как и жили. Щас украину захватим только, а вы сосать будете с бензином по 5 долларов. А мы богато не жили и начинать не собирались.
Никогда
>I also wonder, do they sell viipuri's rinkeli in there?
I don't know about rinkelis but when I got out from the bus, there was some weird looking fellow speaking heavily russian accented finnish asking if I would be interested in buying some "kjasvuhormoonia" xD
But yeah, Viipuri really isn't that beautiful really, it's in kinda bad condition. Still worth visiting as a finn to see our old main eastern city.
Saint Petersburg is really worth visiting especially if you like history and art. Hermitage Museum is the most amazing art museum I have ever visited, even more amazing than Vatican Museum in Rome which also amazing. Russian ballet with Tchaikovsky music also amazing. Russians really have that something when it comes to culture like that.
>Really ? Never would of thought. Always thought that you have private housing over there.
We have some public housing too. Usually these publicly owned blocks are for poor people and they are not that attractive :D. I had a summerjob as paperboy when I was young and there is a vid from elevator of this publicly owned soviet style 8 floor block (in pic). Awful smell and weird noises from elevator cables always scared me :D
It is not very long. Not many poor people in Finland or that ?
>I'm not here to contradict you
Don't worry about it, we're here just to share our opinions. I'm interested in how it's feeling for full western peoples and like to share u , and like to share my vision as a man who was fully involved in all that infromation streams between Russia and Ukraine for last 8 years, cause I have members of my wife's family out there and have need to survive here. I'm not looking to all information from emotional side and can estimate the it's purpose only by reaction of another person. We can't change anything, so better try to use it for our goals, just like propaganda share it for their.
II wanted just to show u, that estimate Putin likeonly a mad person could be dangerous. As a man of war he seen thin parts of ukrainian sosciety and used it to justify this war.
But noone, even his near circle expected this war. It's totally out of any logic. And the more I think about it, the more it scares me, cause he have big experience in wars and even he couldn't make so much mistakes, as they want to show us. You know, historical now have two wersions about action of Stalin after winter war. The first one is obvious - he spent to much peoples and weapons and was afraid too much if he would try to go deeped through all Finland in Scandinavia. And the second is more interesting. Cause it says, that he wanted to show Hitler soviet weakness and hurry him to attack USSR. Before witner war we have Battles of Khalkhin Gol, where we totally damaged Japan army and the world started to understand, that Stalin could be danger for them. He wanted to show Hitler as an agressor and the only danger for the world. Because before ww2 started Hitler was very welcomed for old Europe, instead of Stalin with his idea of world revolution. And that's why Britain and US started to help us just in 1943. It was needed to show USSR as a victim. That's why Putin could not attack a lot last days. He could wait next step from NATO or China. He really could use nuke in Poland or in Baltic countries, if they took apart in this conflict. Because it would be illegal according to NATO declaration and will make it's existing useless.
>are Russians taught that we won winter war?
Everybody inderstand, that we didn't got full control of country and didn't move deeper in Scandinavia. That was declaired goals, and we didn't achive it and lost too much peoples and weapons. For most of us that was useless losts and we interpreting result of that war more like loose.
>he represented the modernization & democratization of Russia
And this was not mistake. It could shock u, but he even asked for membership in NATO (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/04/ex-nato-head-says-putin-wanted-to-join-alliance-early-on-in-his-rule, https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-putin-says-discussed-joining-nato-with-clinton/28526757.html) and been a guest in President Bush's rancho for few weeks. He real wanted to be western style politic. But I'm affraid he disappointed in requirements, that west presented to him, so he started to manage country the only style he was educated in USSR.
>I'll heed your advice and start to think all the material I need to buy it now.
It depends of many factors. Here in russia u could wage higher median level, like I'm. In this case u'll never have problems with buying food or clothes, but in case of crisis it would be hard to buy any importing expensive thigs. As I told u, I've just bought new macbook. Before war it costs about one my monthly income, and now it cost two times more expensive, just for couple days of that operation. If I haven't done it already, I think I could change my old mac only after one year minimum. Same with car. If u have here wage lower then median, it means, that u have money only for food and clothes, in that case you need to buy food with long condition and medicals you need. Because todays rise of the prices is just answer to possibly fuel deficit. The biggest problem in conditions ow far is damaging of logistic network. And if supplier even have goods in his depository he can't deliver it in your country or costs much a lot, because of avoiding zone of conflict. And Russia is connecting Europe and Asia - the biggest manufacturer now. Even hatsapuries contain of foreign flour or cooking in import technic. So u should make your own plan, according to your type of wage, risks to be lost your income and first needs.
>Do you know this dude
>Do you know this dude
Now, but as I can see it by his wikipedia page, he's just another payed russian influencer. As I told u, all that worldwide human rights organizations is the same and we know, that Putin has same peoples abroad. All that climate/immigrants/rights defenders interested just in making informational noise. Mostly for their customers for non stop paying. Sometimes propaganda like to take interview with them and picture it like representative opinion of all public. As all peoples don't have good friends abroad to tell them real situation, they have only that way. Because all of us interesting of relation to them from another nations. As I told u, I don't look tv, except some sport broadcastings, but u can be sure, that RT or any other Putin's media presented him as a prove that all Finland support Putin. You can be calm. Only peoples, that cant change anything even in their own life , not even talking about your, believe them. Peoples, who involved in world business processes and want base their opinion on real fact would never believe them. It reminds me, how Sasha Cohen payed to one US senator for his promotion of kid's permission to have guns.
Hmm, so have I understood right: You think, that Putin actually tried to democratize Russia and bring it closer to the west, but probably banged his head to a wall. I think this wall could be the rule of a law (I haven't really investigated how it goes for NATO, but atleast EU requires this from their own members) It basically kills dictatorship, making it impossible. I could imagine NATO expecting this from it's members, because it's the only way they can trust their members to obey the rules. The rule of law basically means, that not even the country's leader can overcome the law (you can probably understand that this equals stability for all the deals, as the next leaders must obey them also.) Could that be the reason (Putin might have wanted it, but realized that the army & institutions of Russia won't be able to make the change, because it all relies on corruption?)
>And the second is more interesting. Cause it says, that he wanted to show Hitler soviet weakness and hurry him to attack USSR
Well as I've said I've bounced before two scenarios which could explain this everything. It looks like not only Russian army is there unprepared, but also it looks like this isn't going exactly like it's planned. (I realize it can be fully meant that way, which is scary.) But could it be, that the Russian army officials have been so corrupt, feeding Putin with false information about the state of army? And Putin has relied to strength, that is basically an illusion created by his minions, and is just finding it out now. The big reserves of assets frozen by the west makes absolutely 0-sense, if Putin knew about the attack beforehand. But what if Putin didn't know about the assets at all? What if all that money is hidden in the west by his minions, and it's the money that has been leaking out from the system? What I'm saying, is it possible that all that money is actually not hidden by the Putin's regime, but is hidden FROM the Putin by his minions? We already saw Putin firing army's chief of staff. Now there are rumours, that Shoygu could be next in line.
Maybe this could also make sense with the USA getting intel from close to Putin & Putin seeming paranoid af. Have you seen the resent upload of video where Putin talks with flightmaids? His hands goes thru the microphone. :D Yes, it seems like it's made with green screen. Didn't this happen to Stalin also, him being paranoid af about his own people?
What comes to history, as it is presented to us, Stalin did mistakes long before winter war (purging all his top leaders from the army, fearing a coup from them.) Not only that, but there must've been even more corruption then, than now? Could it be, that we see the same problems today, than what Stalin suffered of 1939-1945 - the deep corruption in all levels of regime?
Okay, so that was the "mistake's & corruption has happened scenario", and now the "rationality in seeming irrationality" (this is actually how our president has named Putin's actions.) I get that Stalin might have wanted to hurry Nazis to attack them. I think I said this before, the rationality could be that Putin gets allies. Many of the world leaders have seen how west acts. They drop them one by one. Maybe Putin is trying to force them against the west? This would be my best quest.
Or do you think, that Putin is trying to make west seem like an aggressor.. and he wants to.. challenge NATO? I think that everyone realizes that it could mean end of the planet. But yeah, this all scares me alot too. There's big wheel is spinning. Recently I've been forced to think that what if corona hasn't been an accident. Feels too much of a coincidence.
China is a wild card in this game. I get that it might sympathize with Russia alot. But then again, it's economy is co-dependent from USA's. I think this is big mistake from the west, to push Russia too deep into arms of China, all tho I understand the hopelessness of west with Putin.
Btw, I want to tell you something I ran on today. Pic related. And yes, I checked, the dates actually do match. I'm not usually a foilhat like this, but now.. idk man. I really don't know.
Oh, and here's the pic.
Was bugged apparently. Lets try 3rd time.
I'll answer tomorrow, anon. Gn ty!
Gn!
Your discussion here with other anons is interesting, but there is a real reason why I personally talked about things on (more) surface level.
The reason is that there are TOO MANY details. I am not sure you will understand what I mean here. I could start to talk about ALL details but then I couldn't sleep, eat or have a real job.
Everything that happens today is the result of long series of events, cause and effect in most cases. The problem with this is that nobody can know all the causes or all the things that are in play at any given moment. My question is, if you look at all the possible details YOU (anybody) can find, do you know what will happen next? Natural answer would be no, because either you always miss something, or something is hidden in the first place.
As a consequence, I never think I am right about anything, but i have a theory or an explanation that might be 80% possible. The thing is, even people who had university education, don't all think this way.
There was some talk about nationalism and ideology. I think there is a great misunderstanding. Real nationalism is being proud of ones own country. It doesn't mean some nations are better than other, but it is a force to guard a nation from internal and external threats, INSIDE of that nation. It doesn't mean starting wars.
Ideology is different and dangerous. Science doesn't have an ideology. Every ideology has a set of BELIEFS. The goal of an ideology is to unite people of different nations, cultures, and races, to make something happen. It is a control structure at the bottom and it usually has an "enemy", people who think or believe the wrong things.
Nazism is an ideology, just like liberalism, capitalism, communism, you know all this. Problem is, for example, liberalism spread today is actually Neo-Liberalism, which is almost opposite of "classical" liberalism before. Today the people who actually follow the ideologies don't know the difference between the classical and Neo versions of them, because they don't differentiate between them at all.
Uusimaa, did you find ministers, generals, supreme commanders or oligarchs here? Ordinary people will never stop a war, or a special operation, or anything else.
P.S. You don't take offense at Uusimaa, do you? It's just that this toponym seems to perfectly describe the conditional Finnish name.
Hiiojoi halojatapäivää!
Idk man, one could argue that devil's in the detail. Because of this thread I think I might have atleast doubled the understanding of Russia's culture.
All tho I understand you did not point your msg to me, but I've asked him alot about the details he has answered. I've been curious about them.
Umm, wut? Uusimaa? :D Come again? Uusimaa is a province in Finland, Sorry if I don't exactly get the meaning of your message.
But yeah I've got it already. It's hard for the ordinary people to stop the war.
But let me ask this. If it was up to Russian people, and you saw Putin trying to invade NATO-/EU (starting a new world war), would you stop him? I assume you realize the consequences of ww3 (whole planet being at stake.) I think the reality is that we are too evolved for ww3, in good & bad.
Btw, how the tf has the hatsapuri became a meme in Russia? Do you now suddenly view all the Finns as foodies craving for hatsapuris? :D
That block is from a very small town, less than 20k inhabitants. But yeah these publicly owned soviet blocks aren't that common. If you have even decent control of your life (don't drink or gamble all of your money all the time) u don't have to live in those.
>small town
Still short. In 20 thousand populated town they should be 300 meters long. This one has only two....., how this could be said in english ? "Подъезд".
If I were to guess, it has something to with architechtural culture. In big cities there is some buildings far bigger than in that picture, but then again, there has been clear intent of keeping the "basic architechture" as "short" as possible.
I remember when in our city they tried to build like couple of 10-storey building. That caused a conversation upon citizens if they belong to our city at all.
I think they are becoming more and more popular now, as it might be the case that it's easier for buildings to grow vertically than horizontally. We exactly have not lacked space here before.
Hi, sister
They grow vertically couse it is a scam, in socialist time the apartment building were long, couse all the land has been own by goverment and it didn't give a fuck how mush they spended. It was not the fir profit. Now they build them tall due to the fact that land is costly. This is bad couse in every cense this living skyscraper's a worse then they predesassor.
>Hmm, so have I understood right
>I think this wall could be the rule of a law
Yeap, litearally.
>Putin might have wanted it, but realized that the army & institutions of Russia won't be able to make the change, because it all relies on corruption?
Yes, but mostly, because peoples didn't ready for power of world market. Full integration in Europe was mean increasing power of criminal oligarchs and decreasing government control. On those stage, he decided it could be too danger. Maybe he thought, that Russia deserved more advantages, when accepted ruining of USSR. Cause al old border of USSR was in the middle of Berlin. It was compensation to us for 40bln deaths and stopping Hitler. And this never disputed by any western leaders. We're not talking now about all reasons of ww2, I already told, that Stalin was interested in it too. But that was official opinion, based on law. And by ruining of Berlin wall, USSR made more then anyone else for EU.
And here's we coming to very interestiong thoughts, that I got today. I really can't accept, that Putin was really shocked of all that sanctions and rising of ukrainian nation, what slowed down his invation. Things, that I see now, could be markers, that his plan much more dangerous, than it looked at first.
Everyone expect, that he wants to occupy Ukraine asap, don't spent too mush resources and star to deal with west, to repair his economy. But this is capitalist logic. He is still in soviet logic and ideology for him is higher than money. It could sounds funny with all his corruption, but this old man always wanted to become great historic leader.
Now, when time is going slow, european countries and Ukraine come closer to empty their stocks. We see that european leaders don't hurry with real help to Zelenskii. They frozen their money, they blocked working of big brands, but u don't need Boss suits or extra money if u prepaired for the war for a long time. Now european leader have hardest choice, they ever have. If they help Ukraine with money, they well betray poor countries of eu, that asked money for them, and break their own law. If they give Ukraine weapons, they will break NATO law and will make their own nation a target for russian missiles. And if they wouldn't take it to Ukraine, ukrainian peoples will realise that West betraited them and as u told leave alone with Putin. And after pandemic noone have big resources to share with other countries. If Putin finished operation week ago, everybody could tell, that it was too fast and unexpectable. But now Europe got enough time to help Ukraine, and what we see. Macron using it to collect more political points befor elections, showing him as a peacefull investigator. Poland denyed to supply military plans to Ukraine. Hungary denyed to supply any weapons in Ukraine. And this is only the beginning. The more prices will grow, the more peoples in eu will say. "Why should we tolerate it? Ok, peoples dying in Ukraine, but our peoples dying too. We accepted eu rules, limited our manufactoring according to them, welcomed migrants, that requires money and food now. Why we value our people less, then ukrainians?" I already told, that all that situation will follow us to the rising of nazi movements in Europe. But I didn't understand all the mechanizms, how it could be conducted. Ofc, big countries, such as GB, Germany and France will feel ok. But without decades of smaller countries eu will become meaningless.
You told early bout bible story, that is all look a like. I'll give u another one, that could become true. The gratest epos of Ukraine is "Taras Boolba". It tells about batlles for independace between ukrainian kosaks and Poland. One of the main line is betrate, that son of kosaks general made to his nation. And when this general killing him he said "So what's now, son? Did they polands helped you?" And looking how eu now betraiting Ukraine, looking how they care only about their peoples and wallets, they could realise that only Putin really could care about them. Ofc that would be Stockholm syndrome, but that's how crowd mentality works. So I'm affraid, that in the end Putin could return loyalty of Ukrainians and show meaningless of eu to smaller countries.
>His hands goes thru the microphone
Yeah, but this just an effect of bad quality video. On the best quality it looks ok. Better marker, that he affraid his friend is his long table, but Stalin lived with this paranoya for 20 years. He just killed his near circle before they become unloyal to him.
>challenge NATO?
Yeah, ufortunally I described it in last post.
>end of the planet
This could be the end of todays west. But China and India is already half of planet, and they are not involved. With arabic and African coutries, that still remember or even feel bad relations with white civilization he cold found new one.
>'s economy is co-dependent from USA's
But only until west strong enough and until peoples in west didn't realise, that US it the only western nation that again have profit from this situation and didn't lost anything. I think this fact could damage US authority in the world. Also muslim world and China have a lot of money already and ideology for them could be more important then money. This is how healthy economy works - customers depending of their suppliers same as it true in another direction. West already adjusted to sheap resources and manufactoring from the East. Not sure if they ready to relive decrise level of life and would have to deal with eastern requirements.
>Pic related
I saw it already but for me it's only fun. You know I was very deep in all that "new age" stuff. I even have business on that. I took in Moscow tibetian monks, American shamans and other spiritual speakers from rest of the world and organized here events with them. I was really interested in that theme. But in the end I can say to u, that this is just support for peoples mind, cause they didn't already evolutiate enough. If anyone need support, that mean he is invalid. It makes your effort little less, cause u hope for higher power to help u. Peoples can't accept that there is some scary things in their life could happen without any meaning. Could I think that people in kremlin really counted this date? Yep. But this is not mean, that this is destiny for the world, it only show how primitive peoples ruling us.
New world problem, that await us, if I'm right with my theory will need another acts, that we already done. Fascism and communism can't exist without each other. And if u really tell somebody about "europen family", u should be ready to sacrifice your peoples in value of peoples with another nationality or ideology. Because in family everyone equal. That, what modern leaders can't accept and realize, cause all they value now is their politic reputation and money. But the future is by the since and smart people. Since and humanity is not nationality or ideology. It's natural need of all human beings.
I've already told, that I agree with everything u told. This is healthy point of a western man, that don't want to treasure his mind with events, in what he don't involved. My target was just to explain why your nationalism is not a danger for Putin and that u don't have reasons for scary about russian missiles. Your government now acting smart enough and don't support a lot any side of conflict, except some companies, that should do it, cause they are depend of eu and us market more, then of russian.
And ofc, I don't really believe that Putin started it all because of nazis. As I told, he giving just an easy reason why eu public could pressure to their governments to betrait Ukraine: "In the end of all, they really have nazis. Let Putin just destroy them and solve problems of your own nation with money and fuel."
>Ideology is different and dangerous. Science doesn't have an ideology.
Correct. That's, what I promoting all this time.
But I'm afraid, that Putin already closed mousetrap and hard choice for EU now is to show that they are really common and ready to sacrifice their own nations or answer again by building "old good fascism" in separated countries but with all modern stuff.
>treasure
garbage, I mean ofc
Жесть тебя прорвало, милый.
Правда в том, что я думаю, что Запад боится больше помогать Украине. Но, имхо, несправедливо утверждать, что ЕС не помог / не предал Украину (ЕС - не военный союз, у него есть свои пределы. И наоборот, я думаю, что запад помог в своих пределах.) Кроме того, я думаю, что их абсолютно первоочередной задачей является то, чтобы это дерьмо не распространилось за пределы Украины (это тот самый предел, о котором я говорю). Если это дерьмо будет распространяться еще больше, у нас может быть ад в наших руках. Мне трудно смириться с тем, что кто-то добровольно захочет это увидеть. (Даже несмотря на это, я мог видеть, как Пунья охотно действовал, чтобы увидеть как можно более страшные вещи (это относится и к последней фотографии, которую я опубликовал. Это может сработать как запланированный отвлекающий маневр, если это не чистое совпадение.)
Кроме того, с точки зрения западных СМИ, в Украину поступает много помощи. Они, кажется, утопают в деньгах, и добровольцев даже больше, чем во время Зимней войны. Я намеренно не публикую здесь все материалы, чтобы не слишком раздражать вас, рускис, / чтобы выглядеть слишком субъективным в вопросах (если лучший аргумент, который я могу привести, - это "источник: западные СМИ", это кажется несправедливым даже мне самому). Если вы хотите, проверьте Reddit UkrainianConflict (читайте задом наперед). (Я знаю, что это односторонне, но, думаю, именно поэтому я указываю вам на это, если вы хотите получить полную картину помощи, которую получила Украина.) Конфликт уже дорого обошелся Путину и будет стоить намного дороже. Я вернусь к этому в конце.
> Но это капиталистическая логика
Вы упускаете здесь один важный момент. Европейский союз в значительной степени рассматривается как социалистический проект, "евросоциализм". Мы видим, как это передается, кредиты "обобществляются", проблемы "объединяются". Даже в США мы видим эту тенденцию к все большему и большему социалистическому влиянию на их экономическую систему. Это правда, что у нас глобальная и открытая рыночная экономика, но опять же, я думаю, что мир уже понял, что социализм не может жить без них. Черт возьми, даже Китай можно было бы рассматривать как более капиталистический, чем некоторые страны Запада. Если Пыня хотел видеть, как Запад все больше погружается в социализм, все, что ему нужно было сделать, это подождать. Я думаю, что это довольно ясно в любой демократии. В целом, народная воля начинает все больше и больше проявляться как социализм.
>Я действительно не могу согласиться с тем, что Пыня был действительно шокирован всеми этими санкциями
Мы можем только догадываться. Но, черт возьми, 600 миллиардов валютных резервов. Никто не может быть настолько "нескладным", чтобы добровольно отпустить их. Даже, и особенно, если бы он планировал следующую мировую войну, ему понадобились бы эти деньги. Если говорить о масштабах, то это более чем в 10 раз превышает оборонный бюджет России.
Я бы предположил, что Россия долгое время создавала напряженность и давление. И, черт возьми, хорошо ли они это делают? И нельзя винить Россию саму по себе во всей этой напряженности, запад может быть таким же зверем. Мы видим в воздухе все возможные признаки возможной Третьей мировой войны. Я думаю, что скоро мы увидим начало переговоров (уже ходили слухи о некоторых успехах на пути к миру). Замороженные активы будут иметь смысл в качестве выкупа из Украины. Можно было бы заранее рассчитать, что запад заплатит за то, чтобы остановить эскалацию дерьма. Пыня получит Крым. Он добьется того, чтобы Украина больше никогда не вступала в НАТО. А мирный договор - это когда начинается "финляндизация" Украины. Было ли все это только для Украины? Нет, я так не думаю. Я думаю, что главное - это послание, и оно ясно: Россия готова действовать, если соседи Запада/России не будут слушать иначе. Может быть, это жертва, которую, по его мнению, он просто обязан принести.
Кстати, не уверен, что вы это имели в виду, но я не вижу никакого реального роста нацистских движений на западе. Как я вам уже говорил, это в значительной степени преступление (а если и не преступление, то социальное самоубийство). Все это время мы наблюдали некоторый подъем правой политики, но я бы не был так уверен, что они получат какую-то "слишком реальную власть". В принципе, это можно рассматривать как естественную оппозиционную силу господствующему либеральному и левозеленому движению, которое довольно доминирует в Западной Европе.
> Лучший маркер, что он боится, что его друг - это его длинный стол
Правда, это также может быть связано с тем, что он не хочет рисковать тем, что его поймают с covid в разгар войны? (Мой друг рассказал мне об этой идее сегодня.) Разве не было также каких-то довоенных слухов о том, что он параноик по поводу covid?
>Это может стать концом сегодняшнего запада
Я помню, как однажды подумал, что некоторым из наших прозападных лидеров, по-видимому, "промывают мозги", чем ближе они приближаются к компании западной элиты. Возможно, это потому, что у них есть дальновидность, которую больше нельзя отрицать их индивидуальной логикой. Но я думаю, что у нас также есть про-восточная политика, в которой происходит то же самое. Возможно, это как-то связано с тем, почему мы так долго сохраняли нейтралитет. Например, может быть, некоторые из наших политиков понимают, что есть хорошие перемены в том, что запад облажался, это дерьмо. Это меня немного пугает, потому что, на мой взгляд, запад кажется более развитым - не только экономически. Я понимаю, почему вы можете не согласиться, но мне бы не хотелось, чтобы западная философия была стерта с лица земли. Нам всем было бы лучше без Третьей мировой войны.
> Не уверен, готовы ли они вновь пережить новый уровень жизни
Это хороший вопрос. Похоже, мы идем на большие жертвы в этом направлении. Вы видели документ "утечка информации российской службы безопасности" (может быть поддельным, я понимаю)? В нем предвидится глобальный голод в ближайшие годы. То же самое преподносится и в западных СМИ, что эта война - катастрофа для мирового продовольствия.
>вы должны быть готовы пожертвовать своими народами ради народов с другой национальностью или идеологией
В каком-то смысле да, но Украина пока не входит ни в какой союз. Имхо, он не мог ожидать большей помощи, чем та, которую он уже получил. Подумайте, как это выглядит для западных лидеров, которые думают, что Пыня сошел с ума, угрожая ядерным оружием, если кто-то вмешается военным путем. Кроме того, можно даже утверждать, что это работает как отличная реклама для НАТО. Вы не можете ожидать никакой помощи, если не возьмете на себя обязательство заранее - и я понимаю, почему Украину раньше не пускали в НАТО. Кроме того, я предполагаю, что после конфликта ЕС поможет восстановить Украину и увеличит свое присутствие. Но, учитывая все сказанное, я повторяю еще раз: я рассматриваю это скорее как украинскую борьбу за большую независимость. Все соседи России должны сделать это сами, если они действительно этого хотят, в конце концов, мы все здесь стоим на собственных ногах, и мы не можем ожидать, что другие будут сражаться за нас. Даже члены НАТО должны помнить об этом.
PS: Извините за перевод, но мне не разрешили опубликовать сообщение даже после того, как я изменил каждое слово, которое смог придумать. Есть ли список запрещенных слов для этой доски изображений? Это могло бы значительно облегчить мою жизнь. :D
I would watch entire seasons of this
>The EU did not help / did not betray Ukraine
Yes, but looking now to small. They just gave guns and manual cannons, but Ukraine asking for war machines.
>We may have hell in our hands
The hell is already here. Fact, that could shock u, is that this war is going between two biggest european countries, and mesuring resources for it by any local conflict, such as winter war, could be mistake. Ukrainian government officials, as I see it in ukrainian media, already talking about betrayal from Europe.
>They seem to be drowning in money
Don't really worry about money for refujies. Ofc they will be ok. But, as I see it now, only 10% of ukrainians already escaped. And the main target now is money for holding war for territory. War is very expensive thing and few milliards is enough only for week maybe. And logic, that I'm promoting now, is that if Putin will continue to longing this war, Europe could deny any real help, in view that they will loose money, cause of sanctions (expensive resources + western business, that lost their profit in Russia).
>Source: Western media
Don't worry about it. As I told, it's interesting to know how western society see this conflict. The true is always in the middle.
>Eurosocialism
As we see it from here, it's only a picture for young electotat. U couldn't really go to socialisasion of your country without changing constitution. I'm not telling that western don't have socializm's mechanism, always had. And this is why west more political and business healthy. Cause healthy society don't support straight to any ideology and combine best practices from every of them.
>The EU is not a military alliance, it has its limits
And that's why I think that Putin's plan is much more evil. Cause, as I told, that limit was the reason why eu and nato gave unacceptable reuirements, when Putin wanted to unite. And now he tries to fight with their own weapons - eu and nato rules. And that's why he hurry with starting this war, before Ukraine would be in that aliances. And that's why socialistic talks on official level is so dangerous. All that 8 years they telling Ukraine is that it already in "europen family", gave them credits and promise to help in any problem with Russia, but didn't accept official sign of entering. Now, when war have already begun they don't have full winning escape. The best scenario for Putin, is if they will deny any real help for Ukraine according to their rules and by pressure of public. In this case, minimum half of Ukraine will turn back to Putin and accept his power and concern. In the worst scenario for Putin, they will give Ukraine big amount of war machines, but noone wants nuke war and they will afraid to attack Putin on the already occupied territory. It's mean, that Ukraine will become zone of frozen conflict for a long time. And the quastion is only how long Europe could relive it with expensive fuel and with logistic problem with Asia.
>600 billion foreign exchange reserves
As u already now, our government is government of thieves. It means, that they don't show all the money that have. U could be sure , that they have minimum equal amount in Asia and in their private wallets. And they continue to sell oil and gas in Europe and Asia.
Mb, I'm too pessimistic, but in real life, I prefer to be mistaken pessimist, then mistaken optimist.
>That's not the case in Finland, where Russian minority is doing okay.
Then enjoy your sudden buttfuck. Do you think in Ukraine russian majority was not doing great and needed any kind of protection?
It was just an excuse to make Small Victorious War (just like with Japan) that russian government so desperately needed to avoid people gaze from their fuck-ups and corruption.
also couple thoughts
> I don't see any real growth of Nazi movements in the West
I didn't talk, about nazi movements in peoples groups. I told mostly just about nazi direction in country politic. Can't we call it yesterday declaration of bilgarian governmen, that if eu will decline russian gas, they will exit from eu? And don't forget about millions of ukrainian refugees that will lay on shoulders of european taxpayers. It will groups big groups of poor youth too. Modern nazism ofc will not look same as in the past. Just like China not looking like past USSR. Both this ideology have many faces, and it will be important to know all of them for not permit to rise it in european countries. And we got only few days of that war. Real changes we should await in the summer.
>some of our pro-Western leaders are apparently being brainwashed
every power, can exist only as confrontation. If u already understand, that u have Putin's influencers, u could be sure, that u already have pro-europeans. And no matter, what side u support, all of them can't really struggle for real problems of the country. Because not country paying them. The truth is as always in the middle. And in this conditions, nationalism could look like the middle position. But, again, it;s only another side. To be a politic is always possibility to maneuver between all the sides and to be ready to be unpopular for many groups.
I thought a lot about consistancy of all that different peoples and I decided, that existing of them is unavoidable and nessesery on that stage of evolution. I believe, that all mechanisms and emotions, that human's body and brain have only tools, that helped us to live until that days. Even agressive and evil emotions helped our ancestors to live in bad conditions with defficite of resources. We couldn't angry on them for stealing recources from weak nations, cause without it, we couldn't exist now. And as we humans now have biggest amount on planet in all history, mean that we have now perfect programmed brain and body architecture. And even bad peoples could help us in some situations. Just like in Ukraine peoples, who hated each other in peacefull times, fighting now together. In biology it's describing as a law, that tells "diversity ensures the survival of the genus". And this is not about diversity of races, but mostly about diversity of cultures and ideologies. My position is that I'm out of any ideology or patriotism, I will give hand to any educated person of science and creation on planet, cause we both would be interested in building common world without destructive wars.
Btw, I'm watching now "The Cuckoo" again, and I was schocked with the fact that russian soldier plays same man as was played russian village man "Kuzmich" in two comedies, I recomended u before. And both filmes were staged by one director - Alexander Rogozhkin. This shocking, cause these films and main characters are totally different. But knowing this fact, we could look "The Cuckoo" as a symbolic preamble. Both main characters symbolise Russian and Western way of living. Russian way turned it to a drunken tragedy condition, and western way tries to understand Russia and to be friendship. They totally misunderstand each other but they have have common tragedy in the past, and try to live and have fun together in present days (film was made in the end 90-beginning 00, when even Putin was friendly oriented to the west). The Cuckoo was made later, when some peoples already seen, that our country turning back from west and director showing us moment when Finland exit ww2 against Russia, when russian soldier can't realise that we are not enemies anymore and continue to wait betrayal. But it build feeling of hope for common future, cause in the end they leaving the place together shoulder to shoulder and leaving common offspring.
> I don't see any real growth of Nazi movements in the West
I didn't talk, about nazi movements in peoples groups. I told mostly just about nazi direction in country politic. Can't we call it yesterday declaration of bilgarian governmen, that if eu will decline russian gas, they will exit from eu? And don't forget about millions of ukrainian refugees that will lay on shoulders of european taxpayers. It will groups big groups of poor youth too. Modern nazism ofc will not look same as in the past. Just like China not looking like past USSR. Both this ideology have many faces, and it will be important to know all of them for not permit to rise it in european countries. And we got only few days of that war. Real changes we should await in the summer.
>some of our pro-Western leaders are apparently being brainwashed
every power, can exist only as confrontation. If u already understand, that u have Putin's influencers, u could be sure, that u already have pro-europeans. And no matter, what side u support, all of them can't really struggle for real problems of the country. Because not country paying them. The truth is as always in the middle. And in this conditions, nationalism could look like the middle position. But, again, it;s only another side. To be a politic is always possibility to maneuver between all the sides and to be ready to be unpopular for many groups.
I thought a lot about consistancy of all that different peoples and I decided, that existing of them is unavoidable and nessesery on that stage of evolution. I believe, that all mechanisms and emotions, that human's body and brain have only tools, that helped us to live until that days. Even agressive and evil emotions helped our ancestors to live in bad conditions with defficite of resources. We couldn't angry on them for stealing recources from weak nations, cause without it, we couldn't exist now. And as we humans now have biggest amount on planet in all history, mean that we have now perfect programmed brain and body architecture. And even bad peoples could help us in some situations. Just like in Ukraine peoples, who hated each other in peacefull times, fighting now together. In biology it's describing as a law, that tells "diversity ensures the survival of the genus". And this is not about diversity of races, but mostly about diversity of cultures and ideologies. My position is that I'm out of any ideology or patriotism, I will give hand to any educated person of science and creation on planet, cause we both would be interested in building common world without destructive wars.
Btw, I'm watching now "The Cuckoo" again, and I was schocked with the fact that russian soldier plays same man as was played russian village man "Kuzmich" in two comedies, I recomended u before. And both filmes were staged by one director - Alexander Rogozhkin. This shocking, cause these films and main characters are totally different. But knowing this fact, we could look "The Cuckoo" as a symbolic preamble. Both main characters symbolise Russian and Western way of living. Russian way turned it to a drunken tragedy condition, and western way tries to understand Russia and to be friendship. They totally misunderstand each other but they have have common tragedy in the past, and try to live and have fun together in present days (film was made in the end 90-beginning 00, when even Putin was friendly oriented to the west). The Cuckoo was made later, when some peoples already seen, that our country turning back from west and director showing us moment when Finland exit ww2 against Russia, when russian soldier can't realise that we are not enemies anymore and continue to wait betrayal. But it build feeling of hope for common future, cause in the end they leaving the place together shoulder to shoulder and leaving common offspring.
Fuck you. There is 8 years of this shit, don't claim no oppression, everybody in russiasfere saw it and ether were okay with that or not, you mongrel minority fuck.
Is it true that Finns was not know how to take bath, until they learned from Russians?
I think Finns was stinking a lot. We calling them чухна lol
>Europe could deny any real help
I think they absolutely must deny. Even if it meant for Ukraine to lose, it's the best choice for securing the non-escalation. NATO I'm not so sure tho. Tbh as we've never been a NATO country, it's objectives and politics are not so familiar to me, but in my eyes, they seem to be more willing to participate militarily, than EU.
>Cause healthy society don't support straight to any ideology and combine best practices from every of them.
This. Tbh I used to be negative about EU until I began to study the science around it. Sure, it has it's problems. But EU is still somewhat young project. I know it's bit of a cliche talking about EU as peace project, but hell, if nothing else, it has succeeded in doing that. What I'm also very positive about in EU, is that it somewhat cares about science and philosophy. I saw you talk with another Finnish anon about science being not ideological. This is where I might disagree with tho. I think EU represents the same ideology, that we can spot in western (maybe even global) philosophy & science. One could argue that it is impossible for science to be without ideology. All tho in science there is a clear pursuit to make the ideologies transparent, and evolve past them if necessary. And this is nothing but healthy thing.
>In the worst scenario for Putin, they will give Ukraine big amount of war machine
Do you think, that there's change of Putin backing off, if it saw NATO jumping in with man power?
>quastion is only how long Europe could relive it with expensive fuel and with logistic problem with Asia.
I don't have the answer for this one, but I think that atleast now it's clear for every politician in west, that it absolutely must aim for independent energy policy. It won't be easy, but I think everyone feels like it's a must. You know how Germans have shot themselves in the leg by cutting nuclear energy? There are rumours of it being a plot happening from the times of CCCP. If you think of it, it makes sense alot.
>Mb, I'm too pessimistic, but in real life, I prefer to be mistaken pessimist, then mistaken optimist.
I've sensed this from you. And I can relate to that sentiment. But being too pessimistic can also be a form of not being realistic.
>nazi direction in country politic
By nazi, do you mean "nationalistic"? A forces against EU, etc.? We've seen lakhtas supporting them (not sure, but could imagine) in every western country. Ofc I can't speak for all countries, but atleast we Finns have seen a total turnover for EU (even NATO, all tho there's a change of us Finns staying outside of it it seems) positive now that Putin's gone insane. This has happened to even our most EU-negative party in Finland. When we've seen this speech about "total shift in EU politics", it seems to be really happening. Putin works as a great ad, in this sense, both for EU, NATO & independent energy politics.
But at the same time, it will mean prices getting higher in all things etc. Does the world need such a change? No. (ofc there could be some climate arguments, but I think it's now secondary as an agenda in every leaders mind.) This is hurting us all, and there got to be forces uniting west & Russia once again. This is so f*cking needless. I'd like to bet for somewhat rational outcome in the years or decades to come.
>that human's body and brain have only tools, that helped us to live until that days.
There are actually modern evolution scientists thinking, that in our bloodline, there has happened alot of rape in past. And because of that, every humanbeing still carries these genes. This doesn't ofc. (only) manifest as a rape today, but possibly for a lot of aggressivity that is evident. But then again, culture is the most rapid form evolution. I think that if we want to survive as planet, we must overcome the mechanisms we are talking about here. Selfishness wont take us far, and one could argue that from the point of view of the game theory, the ultimate win for all is for all to play selfless. I think this has been the direction for humankind for all it's existence. And if you look around, in arts & sciences, in most of the peoples minds, in everywhere, there is a force to get rid off the bad influences for the sake of the better world. It's only a matter of time, that is, if we have enough time. Maybe there is even hope in the climate problems arising, for people to unite. You know, the common enemy which absolutely needs for us to play together?
>They totally misunderstand each other but they have have common tragedy in the past
I've thought of watching The Cuckoo again myself (might actually watch it today.) I just yesterday watched this interview of Putin, in the beginning of his presidency. Innit he seems full of idealism, full of pursuit for democratization (ofc I can't know if this is a mask.) I also read this book about Putin's inner circle & how KGB basically started to rule over Russia (it gives a good picture how fucking hard job Russia's president has, basically has to deal with world-class elite criminals.) I think the positive side here is, that I think that the Russian people might be already ready for the change for better. Your leading organizations on the other hand ain't. It's tragicomic how things have slided into this, and if things are let to continue, the direction could be only further into dystopia. Is the best change for Ruskis something what Stalin once did - purging, and trying to do everything from the fresh table? Is this what Putin lacked courage of?
>I don't want to join NATO
Lol, why?
The neutrality has been found as an ideal path by majority of people. As I've told before in this thread, I was once convinced that there wouldn't be politicians who could get us join there. We've been convinced that Russia doesn't want another war between our people. Finns also see(saw) possibilities in as-good-as-possible relationship with Russia, and doesn't/didn't want to risk it.
Now that Putin's gone seemingly insane, everything has changed. He ain't exactly viewed as an ideal neighbor.
Finns invented the sauna. Who knows, could it just be the other way around? ;)
А еще нато это дополнительная налоговая нагрузка.
>Do you think, that there's change of Putin backing off, if it saw NATO jumping in with man power?
No, I think in that case he will turn Ukraine in european Afganistan or Iraq with forever little battles, destructed infrastructure and groups of military bandits from both sides.As I see it now, he have enough resources for that. At least he wanted buffer zone from NATO as a target of this invation.
>aim for independent energy policy
Ofc this is the unavoidable future, but it needs a lot of time to subsitute all the energy, and even after this time it will help just to heat europen houses. China's manufactures, that serving all the world will still need gas and oil.
>>we must overcome the mechanisms we are talking about here.
Indeed. But the idea I want to describe is only to struggle against anger, but almost to accept this anger and direct it to a peacefull side. I mean, that even u and me have same rate of evilness, than Putin or Hitler, but we lived in different conditions. I don't believe in changing peoples mentality only by words. The problems like we faced today couldn't depend only of one human. We should create conditions for all peoples, in what for leadership will be more profitable only creative skills. All that hate and battles for resources (no matter how - by words or weapons or money) will unavoidable grow another Hitlers or Putins. And u see, how evolution of technologies already doing it. I think we could avoid a lot victims of ww2 if germans had internet and could see that russians are not the animals as was showed by their propaganda. Same as we see now how many peoples in Russia showing their protest against this war (trust me, it's unusuall in media and internet). Same as we could have this conversation and realise real emotions on the other side. But the fact, that this conflict is already started, showing us, that until today peoples do enough in technology and scince to finish real wars at all. That means, that we still have enough work to do. And that's why I'm talking, that smart peoples shoud not involving nither in weapon shooting, nor to a shit shooting in internet, but to help to the planet to evolutiate. And that's why peoples here don't going to the protests already. It could be safe in another country, but here we emty all reserves of democracy. At the end of all, USSR didn't broke cause of inner revolution. It become possible, because of western culture, that smart peoples adjusted to deliver here through the iron curtain. Even loweducated peoples realised, why they need to change soviet government and gone to the streets in every soviet republic.
>what Stalin once did - purging
The worst tragedy in our history. As I already told, u can't change peoples only by phisical power. For chaging minds u should change conditions of living. If u'll just scare your peoples, they will be the same, but don't showing their real thoughts. Just as in story with the old lady, I told u before. Just as it become with Ukrainian nazis, that awaited their time until USSR will be ruined. Just as it was, when sons and grandsons of peoples, that Stalin repressed leaded revolution, when soviet leaders become too kind and western. I mean it's not solving problem, it's just hiding it until the worst time, when it could come back again. I mean, that in the same conditions even u and me could acting like Putin. Peoples with another opinin is not only politics, bu even members of our family, our neighbours and colleges. We can't just purging them all. But we should gind dialogue with them to understand and investigate their reasons to avoid that problem in future.
>>doesn't want to risk being caught with covid in the middle of a war
This is an official version actually. But truth is that he didn't use that table during all 2 years of pandemic, and started just a month ago. We have a meme here about "snuffbox". It's started because we have a case of emperor Paul I, who had been betrayed by his son and near sircle and cilled by beating his head with golden snuffbox and strangled with a scarf. And when peoples telling about "snuffbox" they mean that all the great problems in our country could be solved just by one snuffbox on Putin's table. And that is the real reason of growing his table. Most of us here believe that more.
>By nazi, do you mean "nationalistic"?
Yes, cause I can't call another the situation when business going out of another country by pressure of politics. I'm sure some of them didn't doing it cause of humanity. Some of them will soon asking for money compensation from governments, that asked for it. And some countries, that I showed u, already showing that they taking interests of their country higher, that interests of unions. This is what political natiolisation look a like.
>We've seen lakhtas supporting them
You can be sure it's it. Same as they promoting vaccination here and supporting antivaxers in the west, they fight agains nazis here and support national movements out there. The purpose is just to face different parts of country and destabilise situation in social sphere. Same thing to this:
>Putin works as a great ad, in this sense, both for EU, NATO
Look at this from another side. The purpose is to force u to pay attention to this question of entering nato and start active discussing it. And after u'll show all the requirements u, according to his plan, u'll deny entering and finally show meaningless of that union. I'm not sure that country like Finland will hurry with signing eu after they see this situation in Ukraine. Promises of protecting is good, but in case that Nato will start real war against Putin, Finland could be the nearest target.
Yes, this is quite pessimistic theory again, but if Ukraine was pessimistic enough before, we could avoid present tragedy.
>happened to even our most EU-negative party in Finland
I'm pretty sure, that's cause they understand that Russia wouldn't have enough budget for them and better try to convince eu leaders to paying them for lobbying. And again, this could be the part of Putin's plan to hurry your country with discussing eu entering and if u'll deny it even in this situation, this could be big damage for authority of eu and show another countries another way of comfortable living without aliance, having benefits from every sides.
>Ofc this is the unavoidable future
Yup, EU has made a goal to be energy independent by 2030. Lets see how that goes down.
>we lived in different conditions
Might be this, and partly what you said in one of the messages before. Empathetic people rarely get to the top positions. You know about this sociological study, where they monitored all these cars, and noticed that the most expensive cars acted the most shitty (where as the most cheap cars acted the most "kind", were respectful, gave others space etc. in the traffic.)? They thought this to be a direct reflection of how the capitalistic system works. The people who acts shitty, with "me before others"-mentality, is the exact reason why they've got money for that expensive car. I wonder how many leader (in top positions) are there, who haven't yet sold their soul for their career. In democracy this is even more deceitful, because you have to be pro in hiding those features in you.
>It could be safe in another country, but here we emty all reserves of democracy.
I get that. But if all hell's about to break loose, I still encourage everyone to be ready to stop the madness. Idk how, but there's gotta be a way. World cannot necessarily afford another WW.
>The worst tragedy in our history
Okay, so now I noticed I talked about different phenomenon. Sorry. I meant about the Stalin's purge in the upper levels of society. Replacing the old leaders. NOT the purge of regular people. Do you think they are willing to have dialogue with you? Or are they just power hungry and ready to coup whenever they get the change?
>taking interests of their country higher, that interests of unions
Yeah now I get it better. And yes this is the exact same political movement Putin's regime has supported everywhere in west. Russia doesn't have power over EU, but it has power over singular countries.
>Finland will hurry with signing eu
You probably meant NATO here? We've been EU country for long. Couple of days ago we signed non-NATO major ally contract, but that's how far it's gonna go now. I think this is actually wise. If we were going to go all in now, it would be emotion (fear) based decision.
And yeah everyone realizes here the consequences of NATO. We get safety if we are being attacked, but if NATO and Russia go to war, we'll be the first place to be nuked prolly. :D But hell, there's a change it will happen no matter what.
EU ain't exactly military union, even tho there is article which says that "if one of the EU countries is attacked, the rest of the countries must do what ever they can to support." But as no EU country has ever been attacked, no body knows for sure how this is going to be interpret in reality. Finland has tried to promote it, because of our situation (some politics think, that if it could offer protection for us, we could stay out of NATO.)
Btw, I watched The Cuckoo again. It was just as great as I remembered, and your analysis of it was excellent. I might add that there's also 3rd dimension to it: the Sámi people's. You know, they've always wanted their independence. They are this humble people, who have long traditions of living off earth. And now we see these two guys bringing the war to their land. In the end the girl says she's name is "Kukusha/Cuckoo." Maybe it could interpret at that in reality, we are her worst enemy in every possible sense. You know this story about american-indian leader, who was once asked, what does he think off the European coming to his country, and he answered something like this "White men did the mistake of thinking that there could be better life from hunting, fucking and living in peace."
Now in modern world we see these indigenous people trying to unite everywhere under the power of UN, trying to get rights to live the life they've always wanted. Many of them have already perished. Maybe it's the greatest tragedy of the modern world. The forgotten victims.
Putin is the greatest leader. Not your gay pindos country
Continuation to last message:
Btw, all tho I think you are right in the sense that these anti-EU forces inside the Europe often have nationalistic features, I think that the better term would be "right-wing _populism_." That's how they are often called here. We have seen some rise of those movements as I've said (all tho many of them have now turned EU-positive), and I think the debate is very much alive 24/7 if the EU serves nationalistic purposes better than being outside of it. After the Ukraine's conflict, I think the direction has been towards more united EU (might be too early to say how it turns out in the end tho.)
All tho as you might imagine, for populistic politicians criticizing EU is very easy (and that's how they get their votes.) Earlier I posted you a picture of this one drunkard Teuvo Hakkarainen. He very much represents the typical populistic narratives (all tho there are much clever ones existing also.) -_- This is where science also comes in. I see EU trying to use science in it's decision making in all organisations, which ain't necessarily easy to turn into politicians narratives + voters don't necessarily have the required time to understand what's behind all of it (also, science ain't always single voiced either.) Also the solidarity etc. might often come at the cost of short-term benefits, which voters necessarily won't be okay with (as you might understand, human mind's flaws are problem for democracy.)
>could be big damage for authority of eu and show another countries another way of comfortable living without aliance, having benefits from every sides
I get it, but now it seems (atleast for us Finns) that it's not the EU that's making things impossible. I totally get it why Putin's would like the countries to make their decisions without the EU, but it's easy for EU to argument why Russia has to be sanctioned. One could even argue that now the politicians that have tried to vouch for the sanctions long time ago, have been proven right. (BTW: When I say this, I totally get that it might have just been that USA's been pushing Putin's buttons all the time, because for USA more united EU = goal.)
OP, just look at this fag:
This is a typical russki pinya-voter for you, majority of the population
This is a typical russki pinya-voter for you, majority of the population
twochую
I mean. Is there even anyone else to vote for? :D
I could imagine this "8-years"-narrative to be spammed mostly by Kremlin trolls (it's been discussed in this thread before.) You see them everywhere in western internet. They are sadistic and impossible to debate with (and why would you, they are comparable to a bot.) Tbh worst ad for Russia there could possibly exist. Sometimes I wonder does Putin want to encourage russophobia with his propaganda, just to show world that "look, they seem to hate us", even that it's his shit the world hates.
I mean, don't count all of them as a victims.
There's a big, BIG, BIG chunk of people that you can't contact, because they too dumb to learn english.
They are not trolls, they had been voting for Putin voluntarily, and they would happily do it again even in case of alternative.
And they will happily refrain any political narrative, even if they know that this is a lie, just because they are happy for someone else to suffer.
Would you believe me if I'd say that in 2009 russians had been talking about ukrainians on equal footing, without contempt?
That's because they had been shitting heavily on Georgians at that time (i.e. "there can't be more miserable beast than an idiotic georgian ass-cunt"). And after military operation (i.e. war) in Georgia they were in heavy need for a new target.
So that new target in 2012 became the Ukraine. You may think you are best buddies for now because they are speaking with you respectfully, but when the TV will change narrative on you...
You will became "finsky cockmongler" for them, mark my words.
I was talking with them on this very same board in 2012, and I was also wondering, how georgians can be so stupid to fight against russian people.
I know you wouldn't trust me, but I hope Putin will die before my words become reality for you.
Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm not exactly an expert when it comes to all the Russia's neighbors and their politics), but wasn't Ukraine still on Putin's regimes leash in 2009? In that sense ain't it only understandable if there came out pro-Putinist narratives? (And isn't the roots of this war much about getting rid off Russia's influences?)
Also ain't there Georgian volunteers fighting for Ukraine (I understand not that many, but still.)
It's hard for me to imagine Ukrainians turning loyal to Russia ever again, atleast not in decades.
But yeah, actually in Winter War, Stalin sent Ukrainians to die to Finland. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Raate_Road
And I actually happen to realize that it would be more than possible to turn Russia against Finland. But then again it's hard to see why would Putin ever do that. I thought Russia has viewed Finns as an example how to be "ok" as a neighbour? Besides that we aren't rich in natural resources or anything. Also our army is kinda ok (much smaller than Russia's, I get it) but it can make attacking here really expensive.
And I don't mean to count all Ruskis as victims, and I do get that Putin has organic support in the country. But then again, if Russia really was democratic, I don't think the war we see now could've happened. In this sense the people who are opposing putinists, they really are victims of his bullshit (imagine the ones for example, who are sent to fight & die in Ukraine, even that they might have hated Putin just like you & me. Is there a better word than 'a victim?')
>Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm not exactly an expert when it comes to all the Russia's neighbors and their politics), but wasn't Ukraine still on Putin's regimes leash in 2009? In that sense ain't it only understandable if there came out pro-Putinist narratives? (And isn't the roots of this war much about getting rid off Russia's influences?)
No, we wasn't. It was pretty much "do what the fuck you want" behaviour.
Basically, the whole pro-european choice was happening, when people became sick of corruption and government racketeer (they were at every government expect the last one, but at that time government was hardly pro-russian).
So, when people stand up against the USSR-style corruption, Putin thought it was a strike directly at his imperial ambitions, and decided to go into action.
But it just happened that every(!) ukrainian president was floating in corruption, and when pro-russian president (Yanukovich) decided that he will do just a little more corruption, Putin style, for his own pockets - people became deadly sick and decided to throw him out.
While Putin took it personally and decided it's time to act.
The rest you probably know now. One more step - currently it was a time, when Ukraine finally became more rich than Russia.
Small, independent country without great amount of national resources became more rich than corrupted Russia.
Putin also may have thought it's a direct threat to his regime and decided to bomb Ukraine to dust.
Hint - you're living also richer than a Russia.
Yep. Actually we've once been there once already (1939-1945), or twice if you count the civil war.
I've said it in this thread, that this war seems for me alot like the war that everyone of Russia's neighbors have to fight at some point, if they wish to lean more into west.
I'd also say that there's the big difference that Finland has gone through the shit called "Finlandization."
And tbh, one could also argue, that the state of Russia is alot richer than Finland's. The income balance is just horrible. If Russia had fair taxation & income transfer system, instead of corruption, one could imagine them to be much more wealthier country than us.
But yeah I get your point. This is what I've been actually saying before in this thread, that democracy & economical well being for Russian's citizens represents a peace for it's neighbors also.
Are you from Ukraine btw? May I ask how's things going in there from your perspective? Any news/hope for better?
Yep, I'm from Ukraine, though for some dumb reason my flag shown as a russian.
Give me some time and I will tell you the tale how is it here (basically - much, much funnier than I ever thought it can be, I'd even say fuckin hilarious)
This fucken shit is fucken hilarious, as I have said earlier.
I thought I will be sitting in a basement with dust in the lungs, but russian army show themselves as a complete morons.
I'm not going over the top, here's the story how ukraininan non-armed villagers took down 4 tanks with the help of 2 ukrainian flags.
Basically: russians was out of fuel on 2 of 4 tanks, dropped them.
Started doing circles trying to find the way out of village.
Ukrainians took 2 flags in those dropped tanks, than they done a circles, seen tanks with Ukraine flags, and shoot them (because now almost every village have a free tank or vehicle, it's just as commmon).
After russians shoot 2 tanks, one of theyr tanks had been drown with whole crew, trying to pass the ligthweight bridge, and other tank eventually lost in the woods.
Basically, Ukrainian village - 4, Russian tank crew - 0 (except for the 2 flags slain).
I thought I will be sitting in a basement with dust in the lungs, but russian army show themselves as a complete morons.
I'm not going over the top, here's the story how ukraininan non-armed villagers took down 4 tanks with the help of 2 ukrainian flags.
Basically: russians was out of fuel on 2 of 4 tanks, dropped them.
Started doing circles trying to find the way out of village.
Ukrainians took 2 flags in those dropped tanks, than they done a circles, seen tanks with Ukraine flags, and shoot them (because now almost every village have a free tank or vehicle, it's just as commmon).
After russians shoot 2 tanks, one of theyr tanks had been drown with whole crew, trying to pass the ligthweight bridge, and other tank eventually lost in the woods.
Basically, Ukrainian village - 4, Russian tank crew - 0 (except for the 2 flags slain).
*not in the woods, other tank had been overturned in the drain
And if you think I'm going over the top saying the farmers stole shitload of russian vehicles - doubt me not, I'm not.
Well, no. Putin is pro multiculturalism, non of his supporters would call anybody a "mongrel", mongrel.
Cool story, bro. And i just made a backflip while sucking my boyfriend dick. No proof of course.
All putin voters are faggots or closet faggots, faggot. So there's no contradiction in my words
Hihi, mongrel is aaaaaaangry, you inferiority complex is so distinguishingly remarkable i must wonder about you place of birth/living, Taras.
Ooooooh, you actually show the flag, how brave !!!!!
Rather pro-melting pot and pro-status-quo. Melting pot is an old tradition of ulus jochi.
No, he actually supports and encourages local leaders to express they local identity, from banning Suvorov posters from propaganda compain in Nogaisk, to the goverment financed tatar language stadies in Tatarstan, th Chechnya and everething about it, to the different statuses of republics and oblastey in Federation. And so forth and so forth. No melto pot. Btw:
>ulus jochi
are, by any chance, belorussian ?
> he actually supports and encourages local leaders to express they local identity
In theirs reservations to keep natives complacent. Soft apartehide. It's not multiculturalism by any mean.
>In theirs reservations
One trip to the DC 1-2 would break this notion.
>local leaders
>Tatarstan
>chechnya
>DC 1-2
Delirium maximum.
Sorry, brother, can't find energy for answering today. It was very busy day, cause I returned in office after a week at home with covid symptoms. I'll write tomorrow, but it' s already 3am here.
we actually cant
perkele
next time when your leaders will be in davos - shot da puto
we dont have access to yamantau
Dw, bro! No rush, hope you feeling allrite.
If they cut 2ch.hk (there's been rumours that Russia's internet getting big blow 11.03.2022?), you can find me from Ylilauta /international/.
What the f*ck. :D I have hard time believing what the fuck is going on in there.
We've seen some Russian troops with WW2-equipment. It seems unbelievable. Maybe they getting rid off their old supplies or some shit..?
I've also thought, is it possible that if it's just a scheme to make Russia look weak for whatever reason? Like throwing all their B-class material upfront just to.. idk..?
Or could it just be that the army is so corrupt that all the money hasn't gone exactly to buy new shit.
I wish you get by and ALIVE from all that shit. I've seen people in Finland gathering all possible stuff & money to send to Ukraine for civilians. Hang on there, better tomorrow is coming sooner or later. It always does!
Hey OP.
Is there a way I can ask you a few questions, but not on the board? Anonymously of course.
Yeah that much I've understood. This thread has been eye-opener in that sense: it's not about supporting Putin, it's more about surviving his regime for many of the Russians.
Idk man about shooting him, seems like Putin has cut all ties to western leaders and dug himself in some bunker, and it's kinda hard to imagine how tf is he going to restore the relations after all this shit. Tbh it's almost easier to picture that someone else takes his spots and only by then the relations get better. This all has been so fucking unnecessary for all, loss-loss-loss-situation.
We are living interesting times. I hope for shit to not escalate.
Hey!
Yeah sure, one sec.
Putin is a puppet of the United States, and Russia has been a secret colony since the collapse of the USSR. Putin is just a complex asshole, worried about his height, who was allowed by his masters to take Ukraine and try to write himself into history on the conditions that it would not entail a lot of blood. In exchange for this, the United States gets a reason for the population of Europe to sell weapons and its gas there.
For you also: , write that up just in case, if you want.
So are you saying now it's time to invest in US arm stocks? :D
"The right time to buy is when blood is running on the streets"
-Old jewish saying
Commune doesn't stop at regional border, neither doesn't the leaders will or economic interesed.
are you getting blind from too much masturbation? Must feel so sad being too ugly for even kadirov chechens to fuck your sorry ass, lmao
It is sort of hard for me to encounter kadyrovchev since all of them left to liberate ukrainan anus...... ..
There's no such things. You see, when I was talking about corruption, I was not going over the board in any way.
You don't need to have top army of the world, when you waste all your money on propaganda and private apartments made of gold.
Had you heard about "Armata" tanks, top russian tanks?
There is literally NONE of this shit in Ukraine, because they were unable to even start this rusty shit. It has been broken even on military parade.
That's the whole russian "Army" you see here, unarmed russian gopniks and gypsies have been throwing russian soldiers out of vehicles and stealing them.
How do you think Ukraine was able to hold for so long? They army are just as bad as I'm telling you. No cities was taken except the Kherson, but it was just too close to Crimea. That's it
That's true, most of them getting liberated in hell now, after being shot on Ukrainian soil with salo-buffed bullets.
You may join them if you want to, go closer here, whiny little bitch
When chechen and hohol fight it is up to russian to claim the spoils. And that about you fighting ? Or it is only online ?
bamp
Could u explain the video?
He is dipping the bullets in.. "salo"?
"Salo is a traditional Eastern European food consisting of cured slabs of fatback, with or without skin. The word salo is used in Ukraine, Russia, and Belarus, but the food is commonly eaten and known under different names in other countries across the region."
I guess this is some twisted slav-humour? :D
Chechens are muslims. Touching pigs is haram for muslims.
Now post butt, please :3
Eating pigs is haram for muslim, they will go to hell if not forgiven earlier.
And salo is signature Ukrainian food, made out of pig fat. Imagine something like salmon soup for finns.
So, basically, he's telling not a single one muslim who came on Ukrainian soil will go to heaven to guriah and Allah.
The rest is all history, I guess I shouldn't post dead chechens here, unless being asked
This is calumny. Outrageous. Finns have called swedes homos for centuries (we even have academic studies about why we prefer to call them gays), and now they are finally fighting back with memes. You are subject to their propaganda.
You know this goes back long time. Read the viking sagas. They got pwned by Finns hard. These scary vikings who robbed you actually feared us mighty Finns, thinking we are witches with magical powers.
Translation of the runestone:
ᛒᛁᛅᚱᚾ᛫ᛅᚢᚴ᛫ᛁᚴᚢᛚᚠᚱᛁᚦ᛬ᚱᛅᛁᛋᛏᚢ᛫ᛋᛏᛅᛁᚾ᛬ᛅᚠᛏᛦ᛬ᚢᛏᚱᛁᚴ᛬ᛋᚢᚾ᛬ᛋᛅᛁᚾ᛬ᚼᛅᚾ᛬ᚢᛅᛦ᛫ᛏᚱᛁᛒᛁᚾ᛬ᚭ᛫ᚠᛁᚾ᛫ᛚᚭᚾᛏᛁ
biarn auk ikulfriþ : raistu : stain : aftʀ : utrik : sun : sain han uaʀ : tribin : o fin*lonti
Translation in old west Norse: Bjǫrn ok Ígulfríðr reistu stein eptir Ótrygg, son sinn. Hann var drepinn á Finnlandi.
Translation in English: Bjǫrn and Ígulfríðr raised the stone in memory of Ótryggr, their son. He was killed in Finland."
Got it.
Dw, Finnish ylilauta is filled with the material, and I've doomscrolled in unhealthy amounts. I can only imagine how it's in there Ukraine.
Btw, why are the Chechens there? Is it because Ruskis helped the Kadyrovs in the Chechen-Russo war? Or if I put my foilhat on, could it be, that Putin wants to weaken the Chechens for whatever reason?
>Ruskis helped the Kadyrovs
Wow, that is the strong statement ! The opposite happend-Kadyrov senior after a few months of second Chechen war figure out that he is on the losing side so he changed it and stabbed his former comrades in the back. For his help he was named leader of the republic, but under the Putins rule. Of course man of such danger could be left living so explosion happened back in 2004 and his much more direct, brutish and predictable son was put in place proving himself loyal servant to the Kremlin finishing any rebels left for past 18 years.
>why Chechens there?
Ramzan eager to proof himself loyal and strong, the type of man Putin should never doubt. He is like that, then there is opportunity to show loyalty he always first to jump and he always barks most loud. He lives in fear, you know. The only man keeping him and his family alive and in power is Putin, losing his favour means death. So he eager to serve.
>proof
prove
fix
> Ukrainians pay 5 million rubles to every Ruski soldier that surrenders
So we need 50000 volunteers to get our econmy stabilized a bit.
Hmm.. sounds like a great troyan plan.
You are mad. Literally.
I mean I follow the logic and that kind of reflexion, but to me you look as a personal Putin's advsisor. Occam's razor you know.
Okay, thanks for clearing that one out.
I also heard that they pay 1 million USD for every tank/helicopter that Ruski soldiers bring for 'em (in fully working condition.) :D It's actually smart when you think of it.
Is this man going to eat his cat or to give his cat food? Translator does bad job translating his message.
>In democracy this is even more deceitful, because you have to be pro in hiding those features in you
Yes, but I also seen one interesting video on youtube, where investigator tried to make math-model of societies with different proportions of egoists and altruists. There it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNMkADpvO4w
And according to this model, society cant exist for a long time without any amount of both types. Until we can't have infinite resources and territories.
> purge in the upper levels of society
Cleaning population from any groups, that ucomfortable for government is worst way, that could be. We now it best, couse we had it few times since revolution 1917. This is very complicated process. First of all, purging in Stalin style means - killing, and without killing the Stalin this purging is just an imitation. And second, systems so stabled, formed too long, that future leader can't do the full purge without become a despot, like Putin, Hitler, Napoleon, etc. So as I told, the only way - is to form healthy society conditions and be principled and hard enough not to be corrupted by any rudiments of an old criminal system.
As I alredy told, for changing situation u should affect to environment. And this is a good example:
>who acts shitty, with "me before others"-mentality, is the exact reason why they've got money for that expensive car
because road rules is only environment, not a follow of egoist peoples existence. If u make braking road rules for rich peoples more dangerous and claimed a lot my society, this people wouldn't show their deviations and try to show them by the opposite side.
>meant NATO here? We've been EU country for long. Couple of days ago we signed non-NATO major ally contract, but that's how far it's gonna go now. I think this is actually wise. If we were going to go all in now, it would be emotion (fear) based decision
Right, that's what I'm talking about. U understand it, but u can be sure, that some groups, that lobbying nato in your country will try to use this situation to increase their budget.
>3rd dimension to it: the Sámi people's
Incredible, that u telling it, because even peoples from small country usually telling, that no matter how old tradition any national group have, if we unite them with small amount of blood, means that they thair culture is unviable and we bringing them good modern things. But as I already told diversity "ensures the survival of the genus". And this is not only about genetic, we don't know if we investigated everything about culture of that people, the tools, that helped them to relive all that time until our days and we will clean their culture we could loose some mechanism, that will be necessary for surviving of our civilization.
>she's name is "Kukusha/Cuckoo"
Actually, this is the most mythologized bird in our culture. It's connecting world of death and life and receiving to people messages from gods. Cuckoo birds usually have no husband (widow) and mating with other types of birds (same as in film). And the reason, why director named film like this, means, that she and her territory is not just circumstance for line of war and relationships between soldiers. She is the main character, that living real life and war and other things is just unessential decorations. That is totally same as
>"White men did the mistake of thinking that there could be better life from hunting, fucking and living in peace."
>pushing Putin's buttons all the time, because for USA more united EU = goal
I'm really starting to think, that they are both playing in same game separately. A already told, that things can exist only with their antipodes. I mean, that if America wouldn't have great enemy, that doing sometimes something dangerous for everybody, it wouldn't be a great defender of world. Same for Russia. Differences is only what thing they show to their satellites as dangerous.
They wouldn't ban this service for u, but if they ban it for Russia, I will use vpn. But if my thoughts, that all this panic about "weak Putin, that even can't occupy small Ukraine for a couple weeks" is just what he need is right, he will not ban this in near time.
>>Ylilauta /international/
Already there, but mostly I'm trolling locals with all that "Russia strong" slogans and pics with macbook and black caviar :3 Cause I can't trust all that people really care bout this war and at least I could have some luls of them.
Gor it, bro. I'll write u in few days for any case. Maybe u'll need some help or answers from here, maybe I'll need your. I see u'r a real man with your own feelings and thoughts, that could be met only on imageboards and as I told, I want to create new future and my destiny in connection with thinking people, no matter country and any other properties. I also thinking about relocation in Scandinavia in couple years, cause no matter of result of war, near years would be nightmare here. I already have my ex-college, living and working in Helsinki, and Finland could become priority place for me too. It would be great to have some local, who can explain everything in new place.
I'm not justifying personally Putin. I'm justifying peoples, that could be loyal or not enough in opposition to him. Cancelling all that human mass, wouldn't help us, as it didn't help us all of our history. Investigating roots of that problem and accepting all the problems is step one to build good future, but not changing present. Cause for having another present dastiny we made too many mistakes in the past already.
I'll be answering you first thing tomorrow, when I have first moments of spare time!
Gn!
>United EU is Americas goal
No, well, first of all-who's America and second of all-the submarine scandal 6 mouth back, have you already forgot ?
>America
American military-indastrial complex needs an enemy so they can continue to get contracts and keep getting imploide. And in the last couple of years neolibs started to supported, so America wouldn't closed off. This tread is so great, maybe we should create permanent english speaking tread in /po/ just to escape low political discourse level of Eatsern Europe without selling out to burgers and living our yellow lightning home ?
You sir are a fucking idiot. Luckily the overwhelming majority of Finns disagree with this guy and do want to join NATO.
Russian brothers please fuck putin over as quickly as possible so that we can be friends again!
No. Revolution now seems impossible. Only the coup, but Putin is avere of the possibility, and no cliq seems to be strong enough to survive the fallout of the coup. So, it seems that Second Winter War id coming ?
Right now Russia luckily does not have the muscles to start a winter war, but you are right in a year or two that might change, once Putin has prepared the public opinion and revamped the Russian military with china's support.
He will definitely try to do everything he can to prevent Finland from joining nato. Let's hope there will not ever be war again between Russia and finland but as long we are not part of nato, it's a real risk.
I just want you Russians to know that we Finns do not hate you and
we know you are good people. But of course we will defend ourselves if Putin attacks us.
You still don't get ? If you join, he will still attack. So were wouldn't be any NATO at his border. By he will strike before and don't think it is possible to join NATO discreetly. You best bet would be continue business as usual, you got stable political system, economics and society, you a quite neighborhood and everybody like you this way.
Wtf u talking about, did u even read my message? People's opinion was kinda split before about NATO, and now that's Putin gone "full tonto" everyone's opinion has united towards NATO-positive.
It's really unhistorical to claim that we didn't atleast aim to be neutral country. The opinion literally changed to NATO-positive over one night, when Putin attacked Ukraine.
It's OP btw. Apparently I banned or something.
*Apparently I got banned
Yes you are right his window of opportunity to strike is before Finland will be accepted into Nato. But once Finland is accepted, he won't ever do it, because it would mean world war.
That's why Finland has to be quick in applying for membership. If we wait for too long before appying and Russia's army has the time to recover from this Ukraine adventure, then the probability of a "preventive" strike will grow to be very high. This risk will grow regardless of whether Finland applies for membership of Nato or not.
Staying outside of Nato is the most stupid thing Finland can do now. Everyone knows that if the Baltic countries were not a part of Nato, they would very likely be in the place of Ukraine. Similarly for Poland, Romania and other former eastern block countries. This is because Putin needs successful wars to keep him irreplaceable in the eyes of the Russian population.
For decades Finland believed in Putin and for this sake wanted to remain neutral. But now Putin has shown that staying neutral does not give any security guarantees with respect to Russia. On the contrary Putin considers neutrality to be weakness and will not hesitate to exploit it to gain popularity in Russian domestic politics.
That's why the only option for us is to join Nato, no matter the cost. You would do the same thing if you were us.
>it would mean world war
Still don't get it ? World war is a option. At least one persone on Russian security counsel thinks that preemptive nuclear strikes is good idea.
>that if Baltic countries wouldn't be part of NATO.tgey would be in place of Ukraine
Bur you not them, you know. Finns to my knowledge never oppresed russian minority, never trashed Moscow or be of any inconvenience to us. And again, because they so small they can only be transporting place, any large military group would be driven into the sea any rocket base spoted. Finland on the over hand would be the problem.
>Simular to Poland, Romania and other Eastern European countries
.......... doubt it. There pretty far away from the center and we have buffer state between us.
>Putin needs successful wars to keep him irreplaceable in eyes of Russian population
Strong words, but terrible judgement, Putin is not a military leader, never was, never claimed to be. Even more-he cut military spendings, he constantly talks about how they ruind USSR, he showed restrain to forse at every situation he has ever been as a leader, except for second Chechen war. Do you even know how much shit he gets for not starting war with Ukrain back in 2014 ? I bet not. He even got MCS guy as his minister of defence !
>staying neutral does not guarantees with the respest of Russia
That are you talking about ? Ukraine was not neutral since 2014.
>neutrality to be a weakness
Weakness is weakness, but really i think you panicking on the no facts. Of the man like Lukashenko could keep independens as long as he did without so much as complaint from Moscow much more tamed Finland can do that too. Well, been doing tgat since WW2.
Shame, bat you posts are all intact. So that's something.
Oi, it's me, OP (I think there's some error or then I got IP banned or some shit?)
>cant exist for a long time without any amount of both types
That's interesting.
That brought to my mind a theory, but in the field of criminal psychiatry, concerning the psychopathic behavior. It has been presented that psychopathic behavior can increase only to some extent (including the reproduction of psychopaths), before whole society becoming paranoid of them, and the paranoia starts to regulate the behavior downwards.
In this sense societies should have (and do have) inner mechanisms to prevent psychopaths taking too much control of their environment. (It's where the propaganda and censorship also steps in in worst case scenario.)
Kinda related, but what comes for the relationship of altruism & egoism; there is a reward & punishment mechanism for altruism & egoism (science of happiness links the selfless behavior to happiness.) Is there anything to hinder the evolving towards more altruistic societies, but maybe totalitarianism (and even that is not that much about individual, but more about structures)? If you look at this from the broader scale, imho it's clear that we are growing more empathetic, more altruistic, more good. I remember reading that some antropologists have found +100k year old pre-human skeletons with missing limb, which they've concidered as a birth moments of totally new species, which was defined by overcoming the 'survival of the fittest', and instead started giving space for the weak. Hasn't the direction been clear, and don't we even see human kind accelerating towards it? Isn't it the core of every moral perception no matter the culture? My point is here that not only we have psychological mechanisms routing us towards selflessness, but also the egoistic motifs can push us towards selfless acts because of the reward (happiness.)
In this the bigger picture, aren't the only exceptions to this, from the societal standpoint, the nations that have gone too deep into totalitarianism?
>worst way, that could be
It's just kinda hard to understand how you can ever build a functioning system, without even somehow replacing the most corrupt parts of it in the elite. Maybe by really strong democratic movements it could be possible parliamentary route, but if it's basically a crime to organize such movements, how in earth do you do that? Atleast some chains need to be broken first, I'd guess? Modern purging doesn't have to mean executions, but rather expelling them out from the system, ripping them off from power. Isn't this the very logic of revolutionizing the system?
Or are you suggesting, that the next time, Ruskis should first prove themselves as being capable of parliamentary democracy (and aim to revolutionize everything by parliamentary route)? I get that, but then we are back in the square one, if you are not allowed to organize freely. I might also point out that societies are able to take the wrong path, and may not be able to turn back anymore (North-Korea, China, Nazi-Germany), if the system gets too totalitarian. This might also mean that the logic of revolution getting much harder.
Do you think after Putin there could exist a moment for _real_ elections / democratic movements?
>culture is unviable and we bringing them good modern things
Idk how it is in Russia (You also have Sami population if I'm not mistaken - and other indigenous native populations?), but here we our Sami people have some democratic power, and they actually being relatively loud voiced (not only inside the Finland but UN.) They are also trying to renewal their culture with art & reinforcing their own language traditions. If I were to guess/hope, future seems more autonomic for them.
It's would be wise even from the standpoint of public health, if nothing else. I think it's been proven that without letting people have their own roots, it can end up manifesting in various symptoms. Just look around anywhere in the world, the more oppressed indigenous communities = the more addictions there is, suicides, etc. etc.
>the most mythologized bird in our culture
Same here actually (if it's then not a swan), but I think these old myths are slowly being forgotten. Now that I think of it, in Finnish they are also about life & death (for example there exists a myth that how many times you can hear the cuckoos "sing", that's how many years you have left to live.) Besides that there exists an old belief that if you don't hear the cuckoo's sing in whole summer, you are about to die the year to come.
U prolly know that Cuckoos also lay their eggs in the nests of other birds, and never take care of their own offspring (but instead let others do their job)? Check pic. :D
>both playing in same game separately
This is something I've been thinking of also. Check this one out btw: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia8RFaeIqEk , what do you think of it? He has predicted everything kinda on spot so far (atleast how it seems), and his narrative really could explain a thing or two..
>I can't trust all that people really care bout this war
It might seem hypocritical, but I wouldn't underestimate people's fear and even sympathy. I'd say it is real. Tbh I'm even surprised of the response in west. I think Putin might have also underestimated this, thinking that people only post some Ukraine flags in Facebook etc (you know, the typical things. This is how I could've aswell predicted things to go.) It has became the nr 1 topic everyhere. Also the news are feeding people with constant anxiety, which one could argue, is the most important feeling, when looking for a change.
>Finland could become priority place for me too.
Lets keep in touch. I most sincerely welcome you to Finland. The weather is shit and winters are somewhat harsh, but summers balance things out. I'm willing to help with anything you need if you choose to relocate here. Idk if you were aware, but before this conflict, we had a lively discussion going on in Finland, how the fuck do we get educated people to move here. I think this is the silver lining (for Finland) because of recent events.
>how the fuck do we get educated people to move here
Tell them you would welcome them ? I mean ? Is this real ? Are you doing some strange finns trolling ?
Murica = USA. Or do you mean who controls the show? I could imagine there to be several groups with real power. I don't claim to be an expert on issues of USA or anything tho..
>American military-indastrial complex needs an enemy
I think Putin has cleared that problem for USA, for the decades to come..
But yeah, I encourage people to talk talk talk, and then talk some more. I believe internet holds some promises for us regular fellas to strengthen the understanding between us. History is full of leaders having their heads too deep in their ass. Why wouldn't we listen to one another instead of them? If things are starting to escalate in WW3, it's everybody's responsibility to stop it from happening. After all our leaders will be sitting in their ivory towers, meanwhile we kill each other.
I wouldn't be all that sure of your theory. Finland ain't straightly comparable to Ukraine. We are notch or three closer to the west in all things. Also we are an EU country. If the attack to Ukraine had already so fierce reaction, I wouldn't try my luck what it means to attack EU country. There exists an article which is unclear to all what it means in reality (because no one has ever attacked Finland), but it basically says that if one EU country is to be attacked, rest of the countries have to help the one being attacked.
Besides that the reasons we see Ukraine war happening now, none of those (besides maybe NATO) exists in Finland. We have not gas pipes, we aren't a similar threat to Russia (in any sense.) I don't believe for one second that Russia's elite even thinks that NATO is a real security threat. Nukes make sure of it that no one will ever invade Russia. Besides that we don't have similar Russian minority than Ukraine's, neither we are similar "moral hazard" to their system.
= I don't think Russia gives much of a fuck what Finland does. Sure, yeah there might be some verbal stuff and relations might suffer a bit.
I mean. Isn't it kinda obvious, that any country is welcoming educated people? o_O I think us Finns think that no one wants to come here because of shit weather or because it's depressing in here or some shit, idk.
Sorry for the delay. It has been next to impossible for me to get messages thru in here. /_\
-OP
I was studying Finnish to go to school there in 2023, but I doubt that will happen now. I ran to some family friends here but I can only stay temp, trying to decide between going to georgia/kazakstan/armenia next.
> I got IP banned
They could do it, sometimes, cause they decide that u r russian anon that avoiding ban by russian ip with static vpn adress.
>Is there anything to hinder the evolving towards more altruistic societies, but maybe totalitarianism
Memory of the nation. As I told u, we always living in pressure of asian and western counties. If u always remember that your dads and grandads fought for their freedom, u will always try to keep bigger amount of cruel people in your population. And yes, that's how propagada works too. Cause all Putin's tine we had that cult of victory in ww2. As we understand now nor clearly, he prepared us for his plans and maybe that how he become victim of his own propaganda.
>how you can ever build a functioning system, without even somehow replacing the most corrupt parts of it in the elite
You know, maybe the most strong systems in the world is mafia, cause most of people, that relate to them, connected with common crime, so betraying another one u bitrate yourself too. And if u try to replace one member of that system, all other members will fight with u from different sides.
I already told about army ministry, that have been convicted for corruption. And even after couple of years, he got big position in one of the key state organisation. Because, they didn't really care about money of taxpayers. Most important not steal money from their own "family".
>how many times you can hear the cuckoos "sing", that's how many years you have left to live
Same here. We have many similar element of culture, cause western russians have roots from Scandinavia and ukrainians disparaging calling us "Finno - Ugrians".
>He has predicted everything kinda on spot so far
He is famous enough here. And it was not hard to predict how this war could go, if u know how media works here and how Russia usually conducting wars in our territory. His most fruitful professional period was during we have war in Chechnya, so he really now this lesson good. But mostly he telling about only about higher level of this war, how it would be showed in media. Cause in 21th century real wars going in information space. Don't really metter how it really going on battlefield. Rally metter how it would be showed in innner media. Just as now western media showing wondered Putin that can't even occupy couple cities of weak Ukraine and brave local peoples. And our propaganda showing us how we occupying tactical perimeters and how nazis hiding from our brave liberators. The purpose is just to become strengthen in eyes of inner electorate and show your authority to the rest of the world. Cause no matter how mad now world thinking Putin is, if they really started to afraid his next step and activate diplomatic efforts. Same s world now looking at Biden or Jonson as the only hope for peace. They really need to each other. For a normal person in this condition best way not to involve in any opinion, that media try to enforce and think only about interests of your community, where u could really change anything.
>I wouldn't underestimate people's fear and even sympathy
I mean, that in comparison to problems and fears of russian and ukrainian peoples now, it's all looking only like a coquetry or following a modern trends. Trying to take yourself higher by showing to another that u care about big problems, that can't really touch u. I'm not talking about personals, but mostly about all that hysteria in social networks, like when pink haired 15yo nonbinary teen from LA dancing in tik tok in support of Ukraine or fat BLM activist from expensive house calls for cancelling all the russians.
> The weather is shit and winters are somewhat harsh
It's quite similar to Moscow, and that's what I need now. Hope that that climate would terrify ukrainian refugees and more neutral to russian peoples will make living out there more comfortable in mental meaning.
>I think this is the silver lining (for Finland) because of recent events
Yeah, this is a big chance for your country, cause Russia have good traditions of science and engeniering and because of dollar course our specialists become more cheaper to hire. And many good specialist will loose their work, after big companies will leave Russia. Besides that, it's just few hours on a train, and if earlier some people, like programmers, prefered to work from Russia, now relocation become bigger reason for work on foreign companies then money. And relocation is a garanty for u, that employee will stay out there for a longer time and be usefull for your society.
>Finns think that no one wants to come here because of shit weather or because it's depressing in here or some shit, idk
The biggest problem for relocating from country like Russia is language barrier (cause even educated peoples here don't have enough possibility to have good level of learning english language) and starting money. For relocating in Finland I think u shoud have minimum 20k$ to rent a flat for a few months, and living until u find a job. For a young scientist or manufacturing engineer (not from it) it's big money here.
Interesting fact, that we have here. If big foreign company from "strategical" spheres of business comes to Russia, government unofficially forbiding them to pay big wage to the usual specialists, for them not recruiting specialists from state military, oil and chemistry manufactures. So if u choosen some usefull specialisation, u can't wage good money here and u don't have enough money to relocate. We opened this after a big scandal, when our pilots started to be hired in chinese air companies and our government reach an agreement with China not to hire them. Just imagine, how u would feel if u have civilian specialisation and your own government don't let u wage more money for it. In 21th century.
Why are you lying? According to latest polls most Finns support NATO.
https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-12336530
53% of 1382 responders supports NATO and this was few days before the special operation.
>Or do you mean who controls the show?
Nobody, but everybody treyes. And i more talking about different opinions hold by different political parties, social groups, financial groups and the most important-different generations. But if you would ask to named America's ruling class it would be without a doubt neolibs. But again, tge got the edge, not full control.
>Murica=USA
Don't insult my intelligence, please.
>I think Putin cleared that problem for USA for decades to come
They say the same thing about 9/11 back in the day. But war on terror backfired horrible, this and 2008 financial crush revejualise american isolathionism for two generetion, who yet to get in power. The big problem with American Empire, that americans don't really get anything from it and it is really hard for elites to keep jastifaide the spending for the sake of protecting countries that 90% of burgers can't even find in the map.
>it is our responsibility to stop it from happening
I'm not against the WW3.
>that any country welcomeling educated people
No, first all, planty of countries don't recognize russian degrees. Second of all, they have no idea of working demands of another country. Third, literally nobody thinks that you can go to finland and be wathever you want, everybody thinks that you go to EU to clean toilets, that some graduates due, course it is better then to be a spechialist in Russia.
>nobody wanna come couse of shit weather and couse it depressing
And you think life in Russia is colourful sanschine all year ?! Again, is this real ? Ok, if you wanna be part of russians brain drain-just google that that chechs and otger eastern european's are doing. I mean, litteraly everybody who needs it-doing that. It is neither hard or complex, run a program like them and that is it.
Major typo: >(because no one has ever attacked Finland)
*= (because no one has ever attacked an EU-country)
Yeah, apparently this site also detects the use of VPN/Tor? Because now I have to switch the IP like half a dozen time before getting my messages thru.
>he prepared us for his plans and maybe that how he become victim of his own propaganda.
Fug, idk if you realize how fucking bad that sentence sounds. :D
May I ask what is the best hope of Russia in opposite to these Putin's plans, in your view at the very moment? Is it some singular guy? Anti-war movement? Oligarchs? Army coup? FSB? We've had some news that FSB-officers have been put into house arrest for whatever reason, and generals being sacked.
It seems that some analytics are viewing the war's escalation more than realistic now. I think we can see some more pressure being targeted to Finland also (lakhtas, threats, etc.)
>Cause no matter how mad now world thinking Putin is, if they really started to afraid his next step and activate diplomatic efforts.
Apparently west has been trying, but the general view is that Putin is not interested in diplomatics.
>think only about interests of your community, where u could really change anything.
As much as I'd like to agree, if world is sliding into WW3, I think it's worth of supporting the peace moment atm. by whatever means. Have we ever been closer to WW3 than now? There's gotta be a way to stop things from developing towards it. It's only us people who can keep up healthy lever of anarchism. You know the famous words of Greek philosopher Aeschelys "in war, the first victim is the truth." The quote itself is about 2500 years old, and this has been the case for possibly every war for thousands of years. Who stops this development of crazy tribal wars, if it's not us, the people?
I know it's hard to imagine that being the case, because it hasn't ever happened yet in widespread sense, and there exist no institutions to support the peace movement between the regular people (except for internet, in some sense.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_truce <- In that case, all it needed for people to stop killing each other, was a football. I think nowadays we have more resources available for connecting, than a football. And to be exact: connecting to the truth. Whatever differences there is, the good place to start is no body of us wants to kill each other.
>comparison to problems and fears of russian and ukrainian peoples now
This one I totally understand why it looks hypocritical to you, but I'm sure no one is meaning to undermine the suffering of Ruskis or Ukrainians. Social media narratives are usually dominated by a small group of people only, and they hardly/rarely represent the true sentiment of any nation. Also there needs to be a strong reaction even before things slide into worse. War often comes when people don't expect it. If there was no such reaction atm (what we are currently seeing), I'd be alot more anxious. From the pragmatic angle, we need people to be alert now. In this sense the girls dancing in Tik Tok come handy, because some of them have alot of followers, some even millions. This is form of modern civil movement. And hell, it's much needed in west nowadays. If people weren't active, the lakhta's start to dominate the narratives (also lakhta's ain't the only one - for example China has been known to spread the propaganda aswell in some cases such as covid anti-vac.)
I must add to this, that ofc. every hates the social media narcists. Don't let them make you too cynical. Good start could be people from ALL sides showing that they don't really want war. I guess when you see people supporting Ukraine in social media, that's what they are trying to signal. Remind you, Ukraine is seen as pretty much innocent victim in west, and the war seems mindless for most of us.
>big chance for your country
We see pretty much every EU country taking loads of Ukrainian refugees atm. Apparently Ruskis also, but idk exactly how many (I've read that 200k Ruski tech-people have relocated so far abroads.)
Also this is somewhat hypothetical, but as you can see EU turning more and more into multiculturalism, it might be absolutely necessary in the future. And one could think of the system being adapted to it already being wise. We see the climate refugees coming more and more. I've seen an estimation, if the people who will need new home country inside this century, and if they are spread evenly in EU only (by the area size of country), it would mean that Finns only would have to take +50 million people. It's either that, or let the people die / shoot them at border.
>The biggest problem for relocating from country like Russia is language barrier
I get that. There has been some discussion about turning English into 2nd official language. That could be wise.
You don't need 20k USD / € tho. Not even nearly. From most of the cities you can find a flat for 500€/month, maybe even cheaper from some areas (also there exists some form of financial support.) Also it's always possibility for people to seek a job first, and move then. There's apparently over 50k of open jobs. But yeah, the language barrier is a real thing, only small amount of those jobs can be applied without Finnish language.
Btw: "FSI estimates it would take 44 weeks or 1100 hours before a learner would feel confident enough join the conversation at the office coffee machine." (Apparently some of the hardest languages take 2200 hours.)
>Just imagine, how u would feel if u have civilian specialisation and your own government don't let u wage more money for it. In 21th century.
I think this might end up being the worst form of self destruction for Ruskis. People are your most precious resource after all, and even tho smart people aren't necessarily appreciated there, it won't change the fact that IQ is strong indicator for nation's success in economy and whatnot. If the news regarding to immigration of over 200k tech Ruskis, even if you lost same amount of soldiers in Ukraine, I'd say the brainleak can have even worse effect. It's more easier and faster to train new soldiers, than find smart people and educate them.
I think you guys have bit of a misunderstanding here. No one has denied the majority of Finns supporting joining NATO atm. All tho I'd imagine this wouldn't be the case without the war in Ukraine. People literally didn't care enough before Putin went nuts.
Sorry, didn't mean to insult it, just wanted to check that we are on same page. :)
>war on terror backfired horrible
Needless to say, most of the wars started by USA are mindless. All tho, this is the first major conflict in Europe in a long time. I've never witnessed such a strong reaction & civil movement regarding to a war before (idk how Finnish my illusion is tho, being in neighbor of Russia and all that.)
>I'm not against the WW3.
Out of curiosity, what makes you support the war that could in worst case scenario make the whole planet explode?
>planty of countries don't recognize russian degrees
I think in most cases this is between you and the employer (idk about the jobs that are being regulated hard tho, such as government officials etc.) Ofc I'm not an expert when it comes to immigration things, but I could imagine this to be also because of the language barrier. If you have a degree & know the language, it's hard for me too see you not getting employed. You know, there are even some Finns who've studied in Russia (physicians for example) and came back to work here. Also apparently if you have unfinished studies abroads, you can continue them here where you've left of.
>run a program like them and that is it.
I think we could be seeing these in near future, all tho not specifically only for Ruskis, but for anyone who wants to work here. We've seen already alot of influencers recently who've advertising Finland for abroads (I think even some Ruski ones?) Idk if they are they being hired to do it tho, or is it just an organic thing in social media. Also I could imagine the private sector and head hunters doing most of the work, which might no be visible for everyone.
-OP
Europe, no worries, we need only Slavic people :DDD
Я наполовину русский, наполовину финн. Полностью красавчик.
Этот форум настолько ядовит, приятно видеть такое приятное общение.
Hyvä nähdä kameruksia täällä :3
Этот форум настолько ядовит, приятно видеть такое приятное общение.
Hyvä nähdä kameruksia täällä :3
Nice to see fellas all around the world.
I hope this useless war ends soon so we can grab beers and talk about something else than the war or the flu.
I hope this useless war ends soon so we can grab beers and talk about something else than the war or the flu.
Torilla :3
I mean. Would it hurt too much to do some re-branding? How would you like the term "Euroslav"? Or would you prefer "Russopean"? ;--)
“I have lived with several Zen masters -- all of them cats.”
-Echart Tolle
>>>47071628
-OP
-OP
>beers
Skuf please...
>most of wars started by USA are mindless
True, that's way we would be much better hegemont
>that makes you support WW3
Well I'm not nessesrly full on the WW3, but if our enemies litteraly everybody comes out of it worse then we are, why not ? At this point we don't have manpower, economy or even tech edge to lobby our will to the world. And that the alternative ? Qiet tryes to be a superpower and fall in line ? They already showed that we will never be they equals, so fuck that. And that about muslims or chinesse ? It is not only West we have to worry about. On top of that i think we make out Nuclear Holokost just fine due to our size, frozen water supply and amount of bunkers.
>between you and you employer
But how russian eill ever know that he will have an employer ?
>which are not visible to everyone
I got a friend in engineering field and plany of people on 2ch and nobody tells me nothing of the sort. The eastern european interest on the countreary os well known.
>Btw, why are the Chechens there? Is it because Ruskis helped the Kadyrovs in the Chechen-Russo war? Or if I put my foilhat on, could it be, that Putin wants to weaken the Chechens for whatever reason?
Basically, Kadirov is a dirty betrayer of his own birthplace and people, who wish to see Russian soldiers dead. So once the Putin is gone, Kadirov is done for good as well, without support of russian soldiers.
That's how it is, he is just a dirty bitch, worried about his own ass.
>and his own people, most of whom wish to see Russian soldiers dead
self-fixed*
>Also detects the use of VPN/Tor?
Yes. Every time I forgot to switch off vpn (you must have it here for access to some resources that being banned here since 2018, line linkedin for example), it didn't accept posting here.
> what is the best hope of Russia in opposite to these Putin's plans, in your view at the very moment?
Single man can't fight agains system, as I already told. To the system u can fight only with another system. And our first year after USSR fault aproved it. Oligarchs can't provide can't provide society interests. It follows from description of word "oligarch". He can provide only his own interests. All real anti-war movements Putin ruined here. Same with opposite political partyes. The only real power, that exist and could be real power against Putin's-Soviet system - is Navalnyi and his supporters. They have network of regional cells with many voluntiers, but until year they worked unofficially, like human-rights offices, but also doing political activity. Now some of them immigrated abroad or in prison. Unfortunally, they don't have expirience in real politic, but to this moment, I don't know another example that could become new healthy enough system to substitute Putin's one. No metter with Navalnyi with a leader or just as a system, that he build, when he was free (alive).
>Putin is not interested in diplomatics
At this moment yes. But in so big conflicts, a part of guiltiness always on the both sides. Like a woman, that married with a "bad guy" and then wandered, when he started to cheat and beat her. Ukraine didn't returned 5 milliards of credits to Russia, keeping used big discount for russian gus, that they have for loyalty. And then just turned back from Russia, denied all responsabilities and started relationship wist Europe. As we can see it from the requirements of Putin to Zelenskyi, he really show that he don't see any good end in this conflict, cause this requirements is totally unacceptable. But this clearly showing, that this conflict is not about Russia against Ukraine. It's about Russia against western world. Ukraine here is just a "toy", that been grabbed from one kid to another and now first kid try to show to another, that he better ruin it, then accept this robbery. Like he could say "If u don't want to return all the money, that u've got for loyalty from us, then your western partners wouldn't get any profit from infrustructure, that u build for our money."
>into WW3, I think it's worth of supporting the peace moment atm. by whatever means
You know, when I'm saying about supporting your own community, I'm not talking just about your family, or your town/country. I'm really wanna think in future level. The only way to achive new level of the world is to start acting like u already in new world. Without borders and without different governments. In my perfect war I don't want any signs ща modern wars. Because this is not tools of creation, but only destruction. Modern leaders want to involve population on their battlefield. Putin know a lot in weapon war, western capitalists know a lot about financial wars. And all of them want to pull the enemy on the field , where they have advantage. But the truth is that u always loose if u r accept weapon, that your enemy suggest to u, if he have more experience in using it. USA ruined USSR not in the battlefield but in cold war, where western culture infected soviet people's mind. Same here. As I already said, Russia can't become new North Korea or even China, because of many western oriented peoples here. Still not enough to fight against soviet system, but much more, then it was in any moment earlier. And starting open war against this regime for me or for u, in case that Russia decided to invade your country, would be more comfortable for regime. Cause u lighten up your destructive for this system position and they'll just eliminate u, until peoples with your mentality still don't have enough power to stop it. So, step one in this resistance is to survive most cruel period of purging from this system and then rise when regime relax, is to servive our lifes. In my system of coordinates nither russian coldier nor a western don't have advantage, cause they don't have usefull skills for civilian peacefull society. And if I got a weapon and start to survive my life with it, my perfect future will lost one usefull person and present regimes would got another usefull for them element. As I'
've said u can't loose fight if u fight on another field. So I think that ukrainians now should give up in this war. And after few years, when Putin realised, that he got big region full of his haters and still under pressure of western sanctions, he will realise, that he won in fire war, but loose in real. As war changing, description of winning in war must changing too. Just as germans now living much better then us, just like Frence, that given up just in couple weeks of ww2 living better then winners, same will become with Ukraine after few decades. But todays war was loosing not in battlefield, but in all activity of urkainian politic during last decades.
And that's why I'm not boarding my community just in boards of my country. For me u and any other thinking person from other world closer then any russian soldier and my interest is to keep your life to have possibility to build new society after todays, or it could be your and my child. But until we still live in a world where guns and money have more power than brains, first of all we should keeping our lifes and try to increase our skills in creative specialities. That's, what I've talked about.
>I must add to this, that ofc. every hates the social media narcists. Don't let them make you too cynical.
I've got this. Maybe it's just my own problem. But I'm always trying to think another way, then most of other population. U know, "If most of peoples was right, casinos always been in loose." And also science for me is not this things, that already written in the books. Real scince begins when u deny any old knowledge and try to aprove it with another way. Just as thinking that lightning is a god's creative was scince knowledge for many centuries until peoples didn't opened electicity. We still keeping to investigate our world and knowing it better until rechnical progress don't stop.
One of the biggest deifference between russian and western mentality is critical thinking. Living in cruel system full of propaganda we adopted always try to find another true, that somebody telling us. Living in plmore prosperity world conformism is better property but it could close for u some part of objective reality. Most of peoples don't really need to know that for keeping their usual life. But if u choose life of thinking person, u should be ready to don't accept true of society. If u'll try, u'll find many experiments, that approved, that most of people will say "white" to a "black" object, if most of group will say the same.
I'm not talking about all that conspiracy theories and other foil caps. But if most peoples saying something, I'm always try to find another description. Brokers on wall street says:"When your taxi driver tells you it's time to buy stocks, you know it's time to sell them."
>EU turning more and more into multiculturalism, it might be absolutely necessary in the future
This is a bog risk for Europe also. As a project manager I can't know all the processes inside any system, but I can judje about any of it by it's properties. And I can say to u, that any big and fast changes in any system will be destructive for this system. I'm sure Europe don't have mechanisms for full adoptation for all that mass of peoples. Poor peoples, that come from poor and cruel societies. That mean that pretty much Europe will become more african in worse way, than that peoples will become more european in better way.
>You don't need 20k USD / € tho. Not even nearly. From most of the cities you can find a flat for 500€/month, maybe even cheaper from some areas (also there exists some form of financial support.)
That's a good news for me. Also I think, I wouldn't have big language problems. Cause in my sphere most of peoples speaking english. And my Friend, that works now in Helsinki relocated with just this language, he know.
Look man, my main message here has been that we are not your enemies. Putin and our leaders have found themself in the middle of conflict. That's not a reason for us to hate each other.
West kinda realizes your will. I think it's becoming more and more clear now, what the Ruskis think of the situation. There's lots of interview to be found from Youtube etc., where Russian citizens are being asked from the situation. (All tho I must admit, that there is lots of work to do there, and Ruskis could use some rebranding now more than ever. The Kremlin trolls are literally everywhere in western internet.)
If you look it from the western pov, that's exactly why west has been condemning Putin for his "work" against democracy. Everybody realizes we could be partners with Russian people. Putin is making it next to impossible tho. When it comes to sanctions etc., they are only directed to you only because of west is desperate, and they cannot let Russia grow in power with crazy dictator in lead. The hatred is centered towards the very regime that threatens west with nukes etc. It's your propaganda that creates a picture of us being enemies, and it's simply a lie. Such propaganda doesn't exist inside the west. (Yes, I know, the bad people in Hollywood movies are often depicted as Ruskis, but's thats only because Ruskis make a good bad ass characters in movies. Movies, which is not reality, only an entertainment, I might add.) :)
>But how russian eill ever know that he will have an employer ?
If you are educated, and you learn the language, why not? One way to find out is to learn the language first, and then seek for the job, and only after then to relocate (I could imagine this to be the best way to guarantee the residence permit from any country.)
So he is Putin's puppet, and if Putin falls, Chechens could flip a side?
There's actually some footage about Chechens already fighting for Ukraine. Think of it, they can find themselves fighting against another Chechens.
Crazy world, huh? :D
I'll be answering you next in a separate message!
-OP
>or should I just fuck off?
this
>we are not you enemies
Who's "we" ? Finns. Okay, good to know, but word of advice-don't join NATO, that would soil our "not you enemy" status.
>West kinda realize you will
But di they follow it ?
>what the Ruskis think of the situation
Different ruskis think different things.
>could use some rebranding
From that to that ?
>that's exactly why the West benn condemning Putin for his "work" against democracy
Why ? There is a special reason ?
>we could be partners with Russian people
On that terms ?
>it's yours propsganda
Mine ? Or do you mean like russian state propaganda ? We not in the USSR, you know, nobody have to follow party line or consume propaganda if they don't have to. I mean, sorry to disappoint you, but most of agressivly thinking people choose to follow propaganda couse it satisfies they need for the world explanation. Not couse they so an angry terred on TV.
>Such propaganda doesn't exist inside the West
So that ?
>bad people in Hollywood depicted as Ruskis
I don't care.
>why not
The same reason.peopke didn't invest in bitcoin before it risen-most of the people didn't know the opportunity was there.
>Putin puppet
His feodal rather. The man has his own couses.
>Chechens can flip a side
Rebel again ? Maybe.
>they can find themself fighting agains otger Chechens
Kadyrov centrally looking for them.
>Kremlin bots are literally everytgere
Except in RuNet. On home soil.they dominated by hohols to the extreme extend.
>The only real power, that exist and could be real power against Putin's-Soviet system - is Navalnyi and his supporters
Do you think this could, hypothetically speaking, happen without civil war?
>part of guiltiness always on the both sides.
I get that. And as expected, this will end in a compromise which can be hurtful for Ukrainians to make. But will the madness stop there, even if Putin would get everything he wants, or would he just want more?
>But this clearly showing, that this conflict is not about Russia against Ukraine. It's about Russia against western world.
But then again, if it's will of the Ukrainian people to get closer to west, shouldn't it be directly about the will of their people?
I get that there are conflicted interests - a lot of them. But is war really only a short sighted way of solving them? Will it end up everyone losing more than there is to gain? Couldn't there also exist alot of positive opportunities in Ukraine growing wealthier & stabler?
I get that for putinists, this can be viewed as "insult to Russian superpower honour." But look, could it just be, that this past pride is the worst possible poison for development? It seeks to return the old glory, and area with force. In the end that is what makes the "healthy" relations with neighbors really complicated. Instead of doing business, tightening partnership, etc., it causes an opposite reactions, and it ends up Ruski's neighbors only wanting to get further away from Russia. There exists a possibility, where Russia would be viewed as an opportunity, instead of constant threat. Maybe the first step to take is for Russia's elite to accept, that past is past, and now it's time to move on? If not, maybe the whole nation is doomed to fight a war that has been already been lost (and by this I don't mean the Ukrainian war, but the people who don't want to be part of Russia's umbrella. They've already made up their minds long time ago.) Also, if Russia chose to play the game in financial space, it could have even better changes of rising in global power, than with force.
>description of winning in war must changing too.
There have been some positive rumours flying around recently about progress in peace negotiations. Apparently Putin has asked help from China to continue the war. This might just end up being China's decision. They don't want to upset Putin, but on the other hand, do they want to escalate war - if it's in their hands to possibly stop this?
We all want this war to end. But for us Finns it might not look so good, if Putin gets his objectives "too easily." It can be more of a situation of "who's next" of Russia's neighbors. This isn't just my opinion, but also the analysts who I've been following are saying the same. All tho some view this war already "too expensive" for Putin.
This makes it all a horrible inner conflict for us Finns atleast, because everyone realizes we can be next. I hope you are wrong in your thinking, when you earlier said, that this is what west might have gotten wrong (that the costs of war, including sanctions, don't affect Putin, because he doesn't care about capitalistic logic.)
>to start acting like u already in new world.
I respect that view. And tbh, after having listened to you, that sounds like a really healthy way of coping to Russian (or even global) system. Tbh I first wrote a hell of a long text wall trying to argue against the idea, but then I thought to myself that what the hell, maybe I'm just being full of bullshit.
Btw, even if you don't look just at the future, but the present moment, the borders are already somewhat open. You can choose not to fight already. And who knows, maybe the ones who choose not to fight, are the last ones prohibiting the earth.
And tbh I think how you pictured the new world, it's already coming. Slowly but steadily. I just hope that we don't go there by war, because that change exists, and it's not to be taken lightly, that any form of "good" will win that war. You know how it has been said by Einstein, that the war after WW3 will be fought with stick and such? I'll get back to this thought later.
>Maybe it's just my own problem.
Tbh, I don't think it's just you, but I've sensed this strong cynicism from Ruskis. That's one of the reasons I came talk to here, to shed some light on the situation. I were afraid that you Ruskis find us as enemies, having forgotten the positive side in people.
>Real scince begins when u deny any old knowledge and try to aprove it with another way.
Everything you said there should be encouraged. I know about the experiments done about conformism. Let me take that thought a bit further. You know the Milgram's experiments about obedience? (Results: people are even willing to kill another person only by random authority telling them to kill, even without proper reason.) I think the conformism and obedience combined are the core of all war. Also, nowadays it's clear in social sciences, that only by realizing how people act, people start to act differently. (For example, by reading about the conformism studies, it's easy to say "I wouldn't have done that!", but without the knowledge about how people often act, the changes are most of us acted just like the people in those experiment situations.) So, by coming conscious about those mechanisms, so can the war seem more and more mindless. In this sense psychology is the spearhead of cultural human evolution, offering us a mirror for changing our behavior.
Now if you think of it, as the science to explain why such a cruel thing like war exists, so exists the science to stop things like that happening. Why are we not being taught it? One could argue, that it's because our leaders need more pawns to play their games. Maybe it is just so, that we need to find a way - we the regular people - to play the game without our leaders. Does there exist any institution to stop wars between our people? UN? Does it seem to be working?
Maybe we need to rethink things without our leaders. And for this, we can't expect anything else, but to unite by ourselves, create new ways of solving problems. How? I don't fucking know. But what I do know, if we rely only to our leaders, it might never happen. What I'm saying, we need to start thinking about the ways to do this. It's our job. I'm afraid that if we, regular fellas, don't do the job, no one will do it. Instead we will be doomed to be pawns forever. I wish we ASAP find a way to think for ourselves before going to kill each other.
Changes are, we have to find this way of playing the game, before the WW3 fires up. How fucking hard can it be to secure world peace, which is the wish of almost 100% of the people?
>This is a bog risk for Europe
I know, and I think everyone realizes this. And tbh we see strong movements against taking any more 3rd world refugees. The changes are, that the future Europe will close it's borders for them, and only accept labor migration. It has been said, that becoming too tolerant is a path for destruction for any civilization.
Then again, this is one of the biggest reasons why the climate change must be stopped. It's either that, or we have to evolve to the world without borders first. Or then, let all those people die. And this is in BIG conflict with European values.
>I wouldn't have big language problems
I'm 100% sure anyone educated with will to succeed here, will succeed here. I wouldn't be too worried about it.
Have a good day, sir!
Пацаны, это паста с форчана, расходимся.
Connection seems to be working again without problems.
>West kinda realize you will
>But di they follow it ?
What I meant by it, that you shouldn't take it personally. It's not specifically targeted at you, but on economy as a whole. One could ask, what choice did the west have? Should it just have been okay with Putin going insane, and not react?
>that would soil our "not you enemy" status.
It's not up to me if we join there or not. And then again, it's really hard to convince people otherwise now. How can you know if the NATO-membership is the only way to secure peace?
Besides, idk exactly, if Ruskis realize how he can seem like a real threat to us. Basically things could be interpret, that there are signs of him having us in his target aswell. Besides it's hard to rely on diplomacy anymore, as Putin has 0 credibility left.
That being said, we see the risks in NATO-membership aswell. It seems like 100% one-way ticket for WW3, if such thing fires up.
Besides, why should us being a NATO-country being a obstacle for strengthening/repairing ties?
>There is a special reason ?
Could imagine the reason being, that western leaders have slowly realized, that it's impossible to deal with dictator after dictator. Changes are, that after Putin we see even something more worse. Or better, and then worse. There lies lots of hopes for more stability in partnerships in seeing Russia becoming more democratic as a country. The exact opposite is going on now, the dystopian dictatorship manifesting his power.
If it's not democracy, what would you propose as solution?
And yeah, I meant state propaganda.
>they dominated by hohols
Hohols? Ukrainians, I assume?
>West kinda realize you will
>But di they follow it ?
What I meant by it, that you shouldn't take it personally. It's not specifically targeted at you, but on economy as a whole. One could ask, what choice did the west have? Should it just have been okay with Putin going insane, and not react?
>that would soil our "not you enemy" status.
It's not up to me if we join there or not. And then again, it's really hard to convince people otherwise now. How can you know if the NATO-membership is the only way to secure peace?
Besides, idk exactly, if Ruskis realize how he can seem like a real threat to us. Basically things could be interpret, that there are signs of him having us in his target aswell. Besides it's hard to rely on diplomacy anymore, as Putin has 0 credibility left.
That being said, we see the risks in NATO-membership aswell. It seems like 100% one-way ticket for WW3, if such thing fires up.
Besides, why should us being a NATO-country being a obstacle for strengthening/repairing ties?
>There is a special reason ?
Could imagine the reason being, that western leaders have slowly realized, that it's impossible to deal with dictator after dictator. Changes are, that after Putin we see even something more worse. Or better, and then worse. There lies lots of hopes for more stability in partnerships in seeing Russia becoming more democratic as a country. The exact opposite is going on now, the dystopian dictatorship manifesting his power.
If it's not democracy, what would you propose as solution?
And yeah, I meant state propaganda.
>they dominated by hohols
Hohols? Ukrainians, I assume?
>Connection seems to be working again without problem
Congratulations ! It happens sometimes. Maybe thre is some shitposter not far away from you. And you local net got banned because of him.
>shouldn't take it personally
You are strange man, didn't take it personally ? Like, do you mean like i thought it was personal sanctions against me and because of me ?
>targeting economy as a whole
I noticed. That are your trying to say ? I don't understand. If it is point above that is just straight up stupid.
>that choice West has got left
Depends on they goal. If they goal was to isolate Russia and economicly weaken us, while getting cheap workforce and breading women in ukrainan refugees, so they achieve they goal, of course due to the petrol price they will lose some of the comforts that inevitabel sanctions lift, but by this point they would lose interest and Ukraine will be part of Russia. But everybody won. Except for russian independent press, it is dead. Due to the Swift sanctions they can no longer be finaced. The only one left will be on Purins payroll, maybe some figure out how to continue getting American financing, but that is it. Not like anybody in West cares.
>Ruskis realize
Sweety, I'm sorry, but nobody realize anything about Finland because nobody really thinks of you at all. You are not very important. Nobody talks of you, nobody thinks you a tret, or of our relationship, the only reason to remember you exist is them somebody from DC tells about his weekend trip across the border there he bought new chair.
>why us being a NATO-country being a obstacle for strengthening/reparing
On the countreary, we would strengthening our relationship to the point of being in the same country again.
>Russia becoming more democratic country
This horse has left the barn, i explained higher. And then again, that makes you think that under democracy there would be different results ?
>propose as solutions?
To the luck of trust ? Trust in our wrath, the rest is not important. Again, you got very childish view of the world with democraces and shit.
>Ukranians, I assume
You assumed correctly. I don't know how to call they organisation in English and I don't like using word "troll", so rasal slurs shall surfice.
There are five stages: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance.
Now you're bargaining
1. The world will never be the same again
2. The West will no longer be satiated at the expense of the rest of the world
3. Capitulation Ukraina = end of operation
4. Finland will never be in Nato, in an accession attempt, the demilitarisation of finland is imminent
>without civil war?
First of all, for those people who living now under pressure of government, who in prison now for peacefull manifestations, who had to leave their homeland to have chance for a live, they really deserve - this is already a civil war. Second thing - it would be many protests from both sides, same as it was on ukrainian Maiden in 13-14, but with more blood. The third thing - is that in this case we will unavoidably loose some parts of territory (same as Ukraine lost part of south-east, that decided to unite with Russian). All of this sounds really terrifying for any russian now. But as this war was unavoidable from some point of the history, same as those follows unavoidable because of all our politic since 1917. And as long as we slowing down with this changes, the more problems we will have in future. We already have this situation in 1991 with big protests against USSR fault, with blood and loosing territory. But peoples decided, that they don't ready to tolerate this hard transfer period and Putin gave them "anesthesia" - new USSR, that we have now. But if u gave to somebody just anesthesia, and avoid to heal the real source of his pain, this pain will be much more, when anesthesia will stop to work. And as soviet system already showed it's impossibility, we know that this system will dye too. And follows of this death will be harder, than it was after USSR fault.
Really easy and logical conclusion. Isn't it? But try to think, how hard iit's to accept it for anyone here. That's why most of peoples here, who can't change anything try to deny reality and to increase time of Putin's leadership. This is like a drug addict. And that's why I'm asking rest of the world not to claim all regular people, who calling for their support of Putin in social opinion investigations. Most of them can't really change anything and will accept any other power if it will be powerfull enough to substitute Putin'n system. But now they are mostly the victims of their fears. To wake up in some day and realise that all what your dads and grandads fought for, all ideals what u leaved many years before become "nothing" is a big trauma. And people try to hold any chance to avoid it.
For me it's much easy. I'm already went this road of my own world destruction, and now I understand it's a biggest present, that person could got. I can see whole picture, without denying uncomfortable true. I can understand reasons of any human been and to find points for connection without claiming him. This is another type of psychological trauma. I'm not sure if this is really advantage, but I found the ways, how to use it in my sphere and I hope this type of thinking will help a little world to become better place come day.
>if Putin would get everything he wants, or would he just want more?
As it looking now, the purpose is to show his power on ukrainian example. Putin don't have enough military power to go far in this war, if China wouldn't support. But I can't really imaging how could he justify that. And in this case, as a person, who can't change anything, my hopes on western investigations. Just as they warned Ukraine about this war all last year, they should know about all plans of Putin and had been prepared to it better than Ukraine.
>But is war really only a short sighted way of solving them?
Look a like u don't understand mafia logic. Ofc everyone understand, that it's just increasing of risks. But look, if somebody owed money to mafia and can't return it. If mafia forgive him, that would be example for any other debtor, that it's easy way to deny responsibility. If mafia kill this guy, thay will loose all hopes to return money from him, but this will be best motivation for all other to pay in time. This is "one step back - two steps forward" strategy.
I''m not saying it's justice, but it's explanation of Putin's logic in this war.
>the borders are already somewhat open. You can choose not to fight already.
If u mean to relocate already, I don't think it's time for me. First of all, cause I have something here, that I couldn't just leave. The second is that I'm already can leaving life in prepares to new world. Just like speaking here with u and discussing our ideas is better way. This is an advantage, of todays technical progress. And also I don't feel now pressure from Putin's government. But it's only my case, because I have this situation in my life and I have enough brain to make right conclusions how could I leave here and become invisible enough for that regime. Ofc I'm not talking about any information security tools. But mostly how I can live comfortable enough life without any unwanted attention from government. More chances that I could have any problems with regular person, who lost his wage after all this sanctions. But even in this case I have more chances to survive, than most of others.
And also, I see my little mission to leave here a little more of my legacy, for giving hope to younger generation peoples, who have same with my ideals but less possibility to relocate.
>You know the Milgram's experiments about obedience?
Sure. This one and Stanford experiment is the base of investigation of people obedience. But it would wrong to think that it's bad property of our brain. I already told u, that our brain now helped us to survive until this moment and increase human population to the biggest amount of the history. And this conformism is one of the most powerful and useful mechanism of group surviving.
Tragedy is in human nature. The ones, who have power starts to use it for his own needs. It was showed good in South Park in episode with Tiger Woods. And as soon as it's true for most of people, we can say, that it's normal. Only psycho trauma, like mine or situation, that Navalnyi going through now could block this mechanism.
So as it's impossible now to change modern human nature, the good way could be to change some state organizations with artificial intelligence. It's quite funny that ukrainian wanted to be the first, who substitute real judges with AI (https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=f478f3a2-f1f9-4846-875b-cf648215182b). When peoples discussing ideas like this, they always start to imagine antiutopia world, fully controlled by robots like in Terminator films. But we are already have most of our life controlled by robots and feeling ok. The progress must go step by step, with accepting all problems that we make.
Maybe I should've clarified, that there was always the possibility in my mind, that if the Kreml's trolls control the narratives in Russia, would they paint us as your enemy? What good does it do to separate our people further and further away? And if it's not the grassroot talks between the people, who is it to broke that cycle?
And who knows, if Russia gets cut off from the internet, idk, I wanted to atleast show some support for my Ruski bros. There's alot of people there, that never wished for this. Who knows, maybe even majority.
>anything about Finland because nobody really thinks of you at all.
Actually that sounds somewhat relieving. I'd guess that's what everybody is hoping for, in the Nordics atleast, to let us be forgotten meanwhile rest of the world does their thing.
>anybody in West cares.
>But everybody won
I might disagree with that. I might remind you, that west has had nothing but to lose in this situation. (Some psychopaths in Washington D.C. might disagree, but who knows.) Nobody wants to see this war. It wasn't too long time ago, when everybody wanted to set up businesses in Russia etc. This has been a zero-sum game for a long time, and now it has turned into loss-loss-loss-situation.
>very childish view of the world with democraces and shit.
I guess there comes some level of naivety with idealism. Always.
I don't have anything better to propose. And maybe it's easiest to sympathize with the ones who has felt powerless in Russia in the midst of all this, and who've tried to avoid things progressing this way. Think of the protestor for example, who might've been forced into headlines (idk if this ever happened tho, or was it just a suggestion in parliament?)
>how to call they organisation
You are saying they have same kind of trolls than Kreml has? Interesting.
>how hard iit's to accept it for anyone here
So. To summarize everything. And now feel free to correct me if I'm wrong in my thinking:
For Ruski, it's not necessarily about supporting Putin. It might be more exact to say, that it's about surviving the horror regimes, which have arised before, and Putin's is not even the worst of them. Some pray for his death to come ASAP, whereas some reflect their hopes in him of him being the one uniting Ruskis and protecting them from the cultural trauma. Which, in the essence is that you are too different from each other to live inside the same huge country. Ruskis as people are too colorful under the same flag, and even violence is found suitable way to keep it all together, because it's their beloved fatherland, which many thinks deserves better.
There could be ways to stop it all from happening, in theory, but the institutions and organizations are being hold hostage by the regime, which is captured by their own vision how this all should be kept together. Maybe that's the main motivator of Putin, which for many outsiders is easy to forget: to keep the Russia united, by whatever means possible. It's not ideal, but he might have not a choice, else than act like past leaders - which he might despise btw - and do nothing, and just watch it all to crumble down.
There exists a possibility of trying a new way of things, which might be even inevitable, but everyone remembers at what cost the change might come. It might mean their or their loved's ones death or other forms of suffering even. And for them it's nothing but understandable to be passive, because that equals preserving the nation from inner conflict.
From the leaders perspective, the war seems like only option to hold it all together. Russia needs an external enemy, to not feel the pain from the inner wound bleeding, which seems paradoxical, but it might be the only desperate option to save people from inner conflict. For them - elite - this also means the preservation of their own lives from the worst case scenario. For people the fear of having to fight against their own people is greater, than the pain of accepting their leaders finding the external enemy.
And then there are the Ruskis, who always saw the possibilities to change everything, but they don't have the power, and instead they have to cope with the madness they see around them. And that's the wisest thing they can do, if then not to risk their lives for possibly "nothing." Maybe this is the part that conflicts the mind of every Ruski, some more than others.
>I'm not sure if this is really advantage
It is. Why wouldn't it be? For me that sounds like healthy detachment from harmful ego, which allows you to be more empathetic.
I think that is actually something that your historians should've done. It shouldn't be an individual push, but collective. In this sense it becomes apparent, why it is really dangerous for the history to be written by the language of the regime. I don't claim this to be Russia's flaw only, we all suffer from it to some extent, and one could argue that there are exists even more "traumatic" cultures than Russia.
>if China wouldn't support.
The scary part here being, that it's been viewed as pretty much certain, that China knew about this all beforehand. Ofc there is the hope that everything went exactly not like it was planned, and Putin wouldn't dare to try to continue on his path.
>they should know about all plans of Putin
I mean yeah, but here comes the weird part: Putin seems to keep even his own closed ones blindfolded from his plans. Apparently there are alot of moles near him, and west gets almost 24/7 information from near Putin. Even in the leaked FSB docs it says, that if he had warned people before, they could've had the change to prepare for war. Apparently here the logic is, that Putin keeps his thoughts inside the circle of 4 man (this is what I've heard, I think Lavrov being one of them, but idk the two rest) thinking that the west wouldn't have direct information about his plans. It might work to some extent, but this comes with a great costs, preventing the use of . If you are interested, I really recommend you check up the docs.
>If u mean to relocate already
I was speaking in general, not in personal. If the war is to spread, idk if relocation would be even an option for me. If it was, I'd probably be already gone. As I've said, these times have been full of anxiety, having to accept the change of full blown war & endless guerilla war for years to come. (All tho I do this just to easen the anxiety, some global market analyst firm thinks the change of Putin attacking Nordics in the 1 year space is something like 8%.)
>invisible enough for that regime
Btw, may I ask, is it true that if you were recruited for the war, you could buy your way out? I've seen rumor like this, but idk if it's any true.
>to leave here a little more of my legacy
That's something to respect. It would be wise for people to turn the thinking towards that mentality, to leave the country & planet better for the generations to come, than it was for us. If it's something that makes us go extinct, it's shortsightedness.
>Tragedy is in human nature
I'd like to point out that we have free hands to shape how our nature manifests. In this sense culture is the fastest way for evolution to happen. Sure, conformism has it's uses. It helps to find the consensus between people, and it helps societies work better. But yes, I agree with you, the real tragedy here is that history has proven it too many times, that these social mechanisms can be used for evil, just like they can be used for good. All it takes is for one sick man to have evil vision enough, and then to harness all the society to serve it. Yes, I do realize, it's never just a one man, but then again, one could ask if Hitler didn't exist for example, could WW2 be prevented? Or is it the peoples will which has to manifest sooner or later in the mind of some individuals?
Idk if you've heard of Dutch historian Rutger Bregman? He has argued that the history of psychology has been one big mistake, offering the mad men a human image which basically tells them to subordinate the regular people. If I remember right, he has used Hitler, Mussolini & Stalin as examples who has been known to rely on the vision of Le Bon (one of the first social scientists that tried to explain human group mentality, creating a very distorded human image as a side-effect.) In this sense it's might become more apparent what I mean by saying that psychology might be the spearhead of human evolution, and not necessarily the most harmless one, because even if the science wasn't accurate (such as Le Bons theories have been known to be somewhat inaccurate), it might turn into reality in horrenderous ways. Thomas theorem: "If men define situations as real, they are real in consequences." This is why it should be the responsibility of every last one of us to make our free will known. Hell, one could even claim, that our biggest tragedy is that we let ourselves be thought as sheeplings.
>change some state organizations with artificial intelligence
Apparently this is what all the superpowers are trying to achieve. And it's coming. I've already seen some talks in Finland also about it being used in future justice system for example (the reasoning being, that it could be more equal than the judges who are always vulnerable to human "errors", such as empathy, which might distord the law which should be equal.) Inb4: The modern dystopy will be us really being subordinated to machines, which might be superior to our intelligence, but still we long back the times of human "errors", such as empathy. We are always seeking for fulfilment, which keeps us evolving, but we will not be ready, even with AI. We just get new goals for future, and create new nostalgia.
Btw, have you heard about the AI-experiment, where this AI was asked, how should we fix the world, and he asked to take elite as hostage, and kill them all? :D It's funny, when you think of it, but then again.. we shouldn't be too surprised to be surprised about the new possibilities arising when the AI's comes to exist. Actually we should really welcome it, because there is also the possibility, that the elite harnesses programs the AI's to serve their vision only. In this sense they mean nothing but a weapon for our enslavement. Now if you will, picture, if what the Bregman has argumented is true (that we are basically imprisoned by the human image of us being sheeplings), what would it really take for us to be freed? I'd say the self-consciousness is the very first step. And I want to stop there, because I realize I'm starting to sound a bit too much marxist.
If that is true what you are saying, should we then welcome the world, which we have to grief for?
There are many countries in west, that are being satieted mostly by their own work. I might want to remind you, that not all of us are ex-coloanilist. If you think us Finns for example, according to one historian in our history we've been more enslaved than the Africans (per capita.)
I wouldn't be so sure it ends there, even if it was Putin's first hand plan to end shit there. Hunger might grow stronger. The consequences can be fatal for the planet.
Personally, I wouldn't mind too much us being non-NATO country. As I've said it's one way ticket to next WW3, and I feel no need for that (actually I'm sure no one does.) The future is uncertain, full of positive & negative possible scenarios. Including this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jy3JU-ORpo
That should be remember for anyone wishing the WW3. It might start easier than one is willing to admit for himself, and attacking an EU country is a gritty realistic step towards that scenario.
Instead there exists almost endless possibilities towards the scenarios of co-operation and partnership. Why tf wouldn't we prefer to take the steps towards that direction?
>controls narrative in Russia
We have state own media and they do paint you as an enemy. West, i mean, not finns. But if you want to sent a message of peace to the ignorant you've come to the wrong place.
>if Russia get cut off from the internet i wanna show support for my Ruskis bros
Thank you.
>in the Nordics
Btw sweeds are refusing to take ukrainan refugees, couse they are to white, there do finns stay on the matter ?
>Nobody wants to see this war
True, that's way they feeding us Ukraine while cutting us off from the world. Just like cancer organ. Everybody abandoning they whole democraticing Russia project and Ukraine, they gonna be stuck with us.
>Some psychopaths in Washington D.C.
President Biden administration ? Boy or boy they got a great scapegoat for they ruind economy. I might wonder did they allowed the war sole because of that.
>everybody wanted set up business in Russia
Pfff, if it would be sole about busisnes then nobody would left or bban somebody. But for neolibs it is long ago stoped being about only profits.
>I don't have anything better to propose
Tell me that do you want and why.
>who was forsed into the headlines
They all want into the headlines, that is why they protest.
>they have some kind of trolls
.............., are you for real ? Everybody does. You can't be professional politician in 21 century without such people. In Finland too, it is just they mostly focused on the local elections.
>Btw sweeds are refusing to take ukrainan refugees, couse they are to white, there do finns stay on the matter ?
This is absolytely bullshit created by russian propaganda. Finland and Sweden are taking Ukraine refugees. Actually now we are getting real refugees for a long time (women and children) and not those middle-east man-babies with beards.
This is absolytely bullshit created by russian propaganda. Finland and Sweden are taking Ukraine refugees. Actually now we are getting real refugees for a long time (women and children) and not those middle-east man-babies with beards.
You think so ? I didn't saved any links, maybe should google, from thst i see only Eastern Europe takes them in.
Да, ты прав, ждут 200 000 тысяч.
Ukrainians refugees are of course welcome to Finland and Sweden but we are so far away that amounts of refugees are still quite low.
https://yle.fi/novosti/3-12356953
https://yle.fi/novosti/3-12351740
https://yle.fi/novosti/3-12350156
https://migri.fi/en/-/instructions-on-arriving-in-finland-from-ukraine
https://www.migrationsverket.se/English/About-the-Migration-Agency/The-situation-in-Ukraine.html
https://yle.fi/novosti/3-12356953
https://yle.fi/novosti/3-12351740
https://yle.fi/novosti/3-12350156
https://migri.fi/en/-/instructions-on-arriving-in-finland-from-ukraine
https://www.migrationsverket.se/English/About-the-Migration-Agency/The-situation-in-Ukraine.html
>Btw sweeds are refusing to take ukrainan refugees
Not true. Sweden is actually taking huge amount of thems (iirc they've prepared for more than 100k refugees even.) Sweden has traditionally been the most welcoming possible from all EU-countries in taking the refugees.
I'm not sure about the exact law, but I could imagine EU taking shared responsibility for the refugees. That means, that they are more or less shared by the size of the country/capability to accomodate them to society. So yes, Finns take refugees also. Could imagine the amount being in thousands (ofc no one is being forced here, and often times Finland doesn't seem to be the place where people want.)
>great scapegoat for they ruind economy
You view USA's economy as ruined? On what basis? One could argue their country being filled with cash. Even if federal budget ran out, they could start taxing their households (for example), which are pretty much filled with assets to tax. All tho I must agree that USA doesn't seem exactly the "easiest" place politically speaking to set up new taxes. "Socialism" much bad for them, you know?
>But for neolibs it is long ago stoped being about only profits.
I don't disagree with that. But then again, I mostly see these sanctions to be because of western elite wanting to make sure the world peace holds. Atleast I could imagine this to be the main argument.
>Tell me that do you want and why.
Do you mean what do I want? I've explained it couple of times already. For us Ruskis neighbors the horror regimes in Ruski might end up being horror for us also. We can trust the Russian people, we cannot trust the dictators. That's why I see alot of hope in more democratic Russia. I'd like to view Ruski people more willing to co-operate, do business, and strengthen the ties. Now our relations seem to be defined by which foot Putin rises up from bed.
In this sense, democratic & stable Russia = peace for their neighbors + benefits in economies.
>They all want into the headlines, that is why they protest.
Are you saying that the anti-war movement is getting to headlines in Ruski media? Or are you talking about western media?
Tbh, is that all that bad thing, even if they got publicity?
>are you for real ? Everybody does.
Nah, it's not like every country would have such troll factories, where they hire people for purpose of propaganda. We simply don't need them, we don't share same aggressive agenda than Russia. Tbh I see it being next to impossible in Finland atleast. Finland's information strategy is mainly focused on facts, and yes I _fully_ realize this must sound ridiculously naive for Ruskis. But you have to view this from the perspective of democracy. If you lie, and get caught = you lose votes. Trust = power in democracy.
I'm not claiming, that we wouldn't have propaganda at all (one sided information), yes we do, and it's absolutely necessary that we do nowadays when Kreml's trolls are being everywhere. What I'm saying that the standpoints of information warfare is totally different from the pov of west. It aims to invalidate Russian & Chinese propaganda, which is _really_ aggressive. That being said, the disinformation warfare from western pov seems to be defensive.
It comes more apparent when you think of the size of the Ruski & Chinese propaganda. Facebook for example has closed more than billion (yes, not million but a billion) fake propaganda account. It is mainly aimed to attack our democracies and governments. And yes, they use harsh lies. The propaganda machine also uses AI, which is somewhat developed. Apparently there has been found internet forum discussion, where bots have talked by only themselves for a week.
So if you now understand, that when Putin's propaganda aims to attack on our democracy with lies and lies 24/7, our information has to focus on preserving the facts which are being targeted.
Now if you think of it, this is what I've been trying to say what the Kremlin trolls do for Russia's imago. I'm not sure if everyone even realizes in west that they are not speaking for all Ruskis. All tho the situation is much better as consciousness about the propaganda rises.
Having said all that, I must remind, that I cannot speak for all the countries, including Ukraine. I wouldn't blame them too much if they had ones in such situation that they are. Besides all that, I'm not claiming that west wouldn't have suspicious activity at all, or BAD media. Finland has been traditionally trying to stay away from the shit of both sides, so our media knows to be somewhat objective.
>Not true
I stand corrected by you countryman higher.
>You view USA economy as ruined
Americans do, that's much more important. But russian stadarts they doing great of course.
>filled with cash
"Inflation" google the word.
>more taxes
You a correct, such sajechons wouldn't fly in US. And honestly, the fact that you first instinct is to give burocrats money makes me wonder why you don't wanna live under Putin ?
>world peace
They world peace, they world order.
>Do you mean what do i want?
Yes, "you" stands for "you". Wouldn't have this problem in russian.
>I've explained it several times already
They all were too vague to my taste.
>we cannot trust in dictator's
Why ?
>i see alot more hope in democratic Russia
Why ? But, before you answer, I think I understand-you are progressivist, you think that all people are the same and that put in the right environment you would see them becoming this idealise european. But the main whole in you worldview is that we are not in 19 century and such view are terribly outdated. Look at the globalization, look at immigration, look at the general education, time and time again people were proven different and yet you proceed, why ? Okay, let's specify-who would be easier to read/control-one man or 149 million ? Who would provide us with
>stable Russia
? 20 years under one vision, could you get more stable then that ? Again, do US strikes you as stable ? They seems to be lobbying they foreign interest really hard, just much less focused and stable. Couse they president lasts only 8 years tops. Maybe you should check out russian demographics, see who in democratic Russia would want eternal peace ? Do muslims ? Do reds ? Maybe emperealists ? You know, even our democrats are actually not very democratic, they fear and hate russian people, mostly due to the mongrel/minoraty status, tgey realise that they are hated and that they could never hold power without forse and that is they most sacred dream to be powerful, to have force. They main problem with Putin is not they are not him. I like you a lot, you seem like a sweet person, it is brings me no joy to break you worldview.
>is getting headlines in Ruski media
Not really, nobody really cares at home, but they would grab any attention they could get.
>all bad thing
They seems to be okay with that. And russiab crack downs are.not all that hard compered to european. In Russia there is a sence of...... understanding between police and protestors.
>every country
Every politician i would say.
>We don't need them, we in the democrasy
That is presisly why you have them. I mean, there is much more need for them there. Like in Russia we have but one organisation, because we have but one leader, seems logical, right ? But you have many, all of them in constant popularity contest which they livehood literally depends upon, i mean radio add, rally speach, shitpost compain ? No ? But you.at least know about add shitpost then the new movie comes out and there is already million plus good reviews about it ? Open market is a competition too.
>which is really agresseve
Which.is really foreign. Fish don't seem to be notice water........
>including Ukraine
They beat us on the information front, you know ? Shame tgey can't fight as tgey can shitpost.
I'd say the USA's economy is far away from crashing down. The inflation rate is higher than in the recent years, but then again, it's far away from critical. Besides, there also exists positive scenarios for somewhat higher inflation. It eats the old loans away.
If their politicians say "Our economy is in crisis", I wouldn't buy it tho. It's convenient for the politician to make people believe that, because feeling of being in crisis and acting like you are offering a solution = possible votes.
But as I've said, I'm not exactly a pro in all things concerning USA. And tbh, I view USA as a developing democracy. It's not like you can establish one, and it's immediately ready. It's more like walking thru the long path of misses & errors.
>Yes, "you" stands for "you". Wouldn't have this problem in russian.
Yeah, I get that. "Tell me that do you want and why." <- I'm just trying to get behind why you use the word "that" all the time.
>They all were too vague to my taste.
You haven't lived as Ruski's neighbor. Hope might very well be kinda vague as a concept.
And what I meant by I've explained it before, this whole thread is pretty much about understanding, what's going on in Russia, and Ruskis explaining why the democracy hasn't been an option in Russia. Atleast not yet.
>could you get more stable then that
Does it look stable right now? Your leader is threatening world with nukes. Besides that, again and again someone from Ruski's neighbors who has to pay the price for whatever reason. Putin actually seemed like proper leader in the beginning. I remember our ex-president saying in an interview about Putin, that in the beginning of his career, he had told that he ain't going to continue beyond the 2 seasons, because he doesn't want to be a man who keeps doing the past mistakes of Russia.
And no, US wouldn't be exactly my first example about working democracy. It's rather a developing country in that sense. One could imagine that to some degree it suffers from same problems than Russia, concerning all the different ethnicities and backgrounds, which makes people want to have a powerful leader, who has a lot of centralized power. There is a good reason why in democracies there is a law how many seasons you can be in power.
You are viewing democracy from the frame of reference of non-democracy. It is not about who gets to the top to rule all, but a system especially suitable for people with multiple backgrounds. Isn't the ideal solution, that nobody gets too much power to control everyone else? In this sense, democracies are also forced to find a consensus & make compromises among the people who have sometimes even directly opposite ideas.
And look, I wouldn't have a problem if you really want to have dictatorship, but does that really seem to be working well? I might remind you, it also might affect us if there rises a man in power, who is aggressive and violent towards it's neighbors even. How many times do you have to repeat the same mistakes over and over again? Now it's because of one power clique's vision alot of people are getting slaughtered in Ukraine. The next dictator can be even worse.
Besides, what I've read in this thread, I don't see him having united all of the Russia, and there are also Ruskis suffering because of him. Isn't there a demographic crisis in Russia? Young people - who btw. probably represent the progression the best - seem to be wanting to leave the country. Maybe the dictatorship is the exact logic, why there is such a split between the people. It's impossible to unite different people under one vision. Why in tf would you even want that? What if the next leader has totally opposite vision from your world view? Do you just submit to his will, no matter how crazy it is?
Maybe Ruski's could use some re-definition about being united?
>much more need for them there
Umm. Okay, in theory some politicians could possibly hire some marketing team to do something like that, from their own pocket, in the times of election. They are every 4 years. Shitpost campaign are kinda rare tho, idk if I've ever seen 'em.
And that's nowhere close to what the Kreml's trolls are doing. _No where_ close to it. What they are doing isn't always even concerning elections. We just had this Finnish IT-specialist telling, that in Canada they cut off some Kreml's trolls from their internet, and the co-vid 19 propaganda fell 95%.
And that's just one droplet of an example, in the vast ocean of what they've been spreading.
>Who would provide us with stable Russia
Man, I don't know. But as I've said, before in this thread, maybe you shouldn't rely too much on someone other than yourself to bring it. Democracy is about people's will, not the leaders. It needs a strong grass root level movement to support it. Ofc if people don't want it, you cannot be forced to it.
>it is brings me no joy to break you worldview.
You can give it a try, I'm here to learn. :) But I suggest you to read the thread from beginning, alot of things have been already explained by other Ruskis.
Россия имеет 11 соседних стран в Европе.
-5 стран НАТО
-Украина и Грузия (Россия уже напала на обе)
-Беларусь (уже в составе России)
-Финляндия, Азербайджан и Казахстан
Хм, а что делать Финляндии?
-5 стран НАТО
-Украина и Грузия (Россия уже напала на обе)
-Беларусь (уже в составе России)
-Финляндия, Азербайджан и Казахстан
Хм, а что делать Финляндии?
Заключать военный союз с Россией, очевидно))
The only proper choice!
>If their politicians say "Our economy is in crisis",
Some do, otger don't, Biden ignored the fall down and after invasiobln said that Putin is to blame.
>USA is developing democracy
They day USA becomes the democracy it would stop being USA and starts to be something else. Like USSR stoped being USSR after communism stoped being it's national ideology.
>Ruskis explaining why the democracy hasn't been an option in Russia.
Well, if the being perfectly honest i don't belive that is the best option for anybody, but i just don't like telling people how to live. Unless i has to tolerate they presence of course.
>It is not about who gets to the top to rule all
It is not, it is about who doesn't. The time of Empire gas past, any mongrel could be on top, Stalin wasn't even a russian, you know ? You see, I don't.really like Putin and a very few people actually do, but at least he is not one the groups what wants me dead or the one who wants me to kneel for all the minoritys and then let them cut my head. Putin is a compromise figure.
>to find a consensus & make compromises
And you think it is a good thing ? So if somebody wants to cut my head, politician that i elected to protect me should negotiat for him to.only break my legs ?
>it also might affect us if there rises a man in power, who is aggressive and violent towards it's neighbors even
Hitler was democraticly elected. Sometimes people jusy choose violens.
>How many times do you have to repeat the same mistakes over and over again?
That mistakes ?
>alot of people are getting slaughtered in Ukraine.
Tough luck, but that is for the best.
>what I've read in this thread, I don't see him having united all of the Russia
He did, it is just his unity sucks and most of the groups are waiting to poee shift so they could strike.
>What if the next leader has totally opposite vision from your world view?
I wanna say, that i will try to break free, but honestly speaking, i just don't have will or ability to do anything, so probably i would just continue to live my life until i die. Probably sooner, then later.
>Do you just submit to his will, no matter how crazy it is?
No, i go to Kremlin every day to inform him of my displeasure with his work.
>Isn't there a demographic crisis in Russia?
There is, but is not Putins fault, it is not an isolated incident. And btw, why.do you think we agresseve now ? Because in the few year we would have a manpower.
>Okay, in theory some politicians could possibly hire some marketing team to do something like that, from their own pocket, in the times of election.
Oh no, after election somebody has to support and explain elected and regular officals every move and disijon, how his every fuck up, is actually a victory. In the free society there is a free press ? Right ? And opposition ? All of them are gonna attack him and of coure he needs protection and maybe tramplin to next post..........
>Does it look stable right now?
Stable bad, i think.
>And that's nowhere close to what the Kreml's trolls are doing
Inalready commented on the matter.
>But I suggest you to read the thread from beginning, alot of things have been already explained by other Ruskis.
You insult me again ! I did it in the first day ! It is just different ruskis have different opinions.
I could imagine actually doing that in case of USA's being taken hostage by a dictator, and he's planning to attack Europe.
Would you give us nukes? We could threaten Sweden together. ":D"
>i just don't like telling people how to live.
These long series of talks are not so much about anyone telling anyone how to live, but more like why can't Ruskis stop the war, even if their people don't want it. That on the other hand, rises a question, why don't you try democracy for once. It seems like a solution for many of your problems.
>And you think it is a good thing
John Rawls. Veil of ignorance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_position
Try the thought experiement, if you will.
>Hitler was democraticly elected.
Nazis got 33% of votes, if I remember correct. Hitler never personally won elections to be chosen as chancellor, one man appointed him. Hitler exploited the flaws of democracy, and established an authotarian dictatorship.
But you are right in a sense, that I often think about the Hitler's case as a whole as an example of a democracy, that fell to dictatorship. Was it truly a people's will tho? People were ripped off the power already when Hitler started to manifest his most dangerous symptoms. One could imagine Germans to do anything to avoid such catastrophe again.
Also, I might want to add, that European democracies have come far from those days, and lessons have been learned. Nowadays the democracies are aiming more and more to decentralization of power, so the past mistakes couldn't be ever made again. Basically even trying would be illegal (with such means that Hitler did.) As I said, it's a long path, and sometimes walking thru misses & errors. And it's not perfect system. But is there really any better option?
>it is just his unity sucks and most of the groups are waiting to poee shift so they could strike
If such opportunity rises, why wouldn't you Ruskis use it as a change to create better country for anyone? It's the only country you can ever have. Better make it as good as possible, for everyone. Right?
Btw, when you talk about minorities that want to kill you: are there many in Russia, that could be viewed as such danger?
>And btw, why.do you think we agresseve now ?
I'm not saying Ruskis necessarily are as a people. Putin seems to be tho. Ukraine, you know?
And dw, I have absolutely no need or will to insult you. :)
>but more like why can't Ruskis stop the war, even if their people don't want it.
Majority supports it, 70% or something.
>why don't you try democracy for once
.........we did it twice in 20th century. You really upset me with this one, it is not like you are an American from other side of the globe. Don't you how you country came to be ?
>the thought experiment
Don't understand the concept.
>One could imagine Germans to do anything to avoid such catastrophe again
Well, they solutions was to castrate themself.
>But is there really any better option?
Depends on nation, depends on it is problems, honestly with Europeans it is that you have governments at all is the main problem with it.
>If such opportunity rises, why wouldn't you Ruskis use it as a change to create better country for anyone?
To many different groups that exclude one another. There is only genocide as a solution, or compromise figure like Putin. Again "better country for everyone" sounds a lot like bolshevism. Didn't go well for us last time the tried.
>Btw, when you talk about minorities that want to kill you: are there many in Russia, that could be viewed as such danger?
All muslims, except some progressive tatars, but progressive tatar would probably kill me for being a russian given a chance, most of the reds, god know how many of those. Generally prols have sparratic fazes of anger, my rainbow flag doesn't help. But they are not the minority. Are reds ? Lets just count the muslims. All adult males, women and children are no threat. 10 mils, i think.
>To summarize everything. And now feel free to correct me if I'm wrong in my thinking
Well, actually I'm really impressed, cause I've never read more correct description of russian life in past few centuries. You have talent in interpretation big massives of information. I think I will use this text, if I'll have to explain our inner life for someone else.
I'll just make a little corrections. Maybe this is what u really kept in mind, but it've attracted my attention mostly through other correct words.
> Some pray for his death to come ASAP
Not in direct way ofc, they'll never say to you or to themselves, that they want to dye. Suicide is not their choice. But they are living a kind of selfdestruction life. It could be be explained by one bright example. After Chernobyl exploded, most population of Pripyat (city, where lived peoples, that worked on station), were resettled in new soviet town "Slavutich". And peoples, that becomes new citizens of that town started to live that kind of destruction life, like drinking too much, using drugs and fighting in criminal showdowns. That peoples thought that anyway they got too much amount of radiation, that they anyway will live short life, so they didn't value this life and tried to live fast and bright the only way they could. And after few years, scientists, who investigated this phenomenon, concluded, in average if that peoples didn't lived that kind of life, they live much longer life even been radiation poisoned.
Same with peoples here. Many of them living destructive life and support destructive things, cause they can't change anything and don't see any possibilities in life. So destruction looking for them as the only way, how they can control their life and make their own decisions.
>Why wouldn't it be?
Couse critical thinking is good thing if u r living in society full of life and hidden meanings. If u r living in society of plenty, like most of western ones, where government cares about regular peoples, it can make u a shizo. In any primitive society, where regular person can't know real picture of reality nonconformism could make u alfa-male of omega. Depending of what kind of information u can't see. So here this hidden information is usually more usefull for surviving, but in western world regular person don't really need to know how government achieving their level of life, cause it's can't be better in most cases.
>Putin seems to keep even his own closed ones blindfolded from his plans
Sure. But every thought needs realisation. And by looking for outside changes, investigators could judge about real plans. Like, if Putin would decide to attack another country, he will need to move big groups of army and weapon to it's border. Or make big changes money streams. So anyway, I'm sure, that all that properties, that could be investigated is in their field of view.
>if you were recruited for the war, you could buy your way out?
Well. Actually noone really know what possibilities could be in case of real war, but in usual life, many of russians prefer not to go in compulsory army, that we have here. I bought a certificate of heart illness, not to go out there. Cause army here is kind of prison, so in army going youth, whose parents don't have few thousands dollars or who mad enough to believe, that this is the only way to approve his patriotism in peaceful time. Ofc in case of real war, like now on Ukraine they will look only to the age not been phisicaly disabled. Only sons of real elites could have posibility to avoid it, like now in Ukraine.
I'll answer another part a bit later
>full of life
lie from elite, I mean
>offering the mad men a human image which basically tells them to subordinate the regular people.
Well, actually, here we come to the point, where I must share with u my theory of everything, that I opened for myself couple years before during pandemic, when I have a lot of time for deep investigating surrounding life. The explanation could be chaotic, cause it needs another format for full understanding. But I'll try to give some conclusions, that can help to understand, what I really mean.
First of all we should know that every complicated perfect object, that we can see or feel, could be described as a system. As a complicated I mean any object, that consist more then one element. As a perfect, I mean object, that have it's purpose and don't have meaningless element. Like table for example. In general we could look at a table. It consist of 4 feets and surface. If u delete one of this element it stop to have it's purpose. Or any important human inner organ. If one cell of heart would die without substitute, the person, that have this heart will die of cancer, that will share from one cell.
As an it engineer I know that system is complex of regular elements, that have one general purpose. Any property, depends of system we talking about. It could be quality or material or any other.
From that we can say, that human been as a system that grown up from just one-cell organism (according to theory of evolution) has same mean of life and behaviour, that could be described with same models, that describing behaviour of one-cell organism. The behaviour of one-cell organism is just to find environment with better conditions for having resources for living and cell division. Sometimes, conditions of environment changing and this primitive organism should find way to change environment. If it don't have mechanism for this changing it could find organism with this ability, but who need another cell that have ability to detect where this better environment can be. This is how one-cell organisms connecting in poly-cell organisms for surviving. During all period of evolution, pre-human organisms "connected" (or) developed more and more new cells, that helped to change and survive in new environment. From some point organisms started to mating with other ones to create a new generation with new mixed properties, that more useful for existing environment.
From some point primitive peoples started to understand that they could use external objects to develop outer environment for more comfortable living. From this moment started technical progress.
And it's impossible for primitive organism to explain how he must act to survive, but it have this undertanding on level of instincts. And that's why we have "reward & punishment mechanism". That's how our organism ruling us to make, as I'm calling it, evolutional acts - acts, that pushing us to surviving behaviour and punish for destructive. By hormones ofc. That's why we need any outer tools, like alcohol or drugs or some trauma, to "mute" this mechanism for a time. In natural conditions our brain don't let us acting according to destructive way.
So for whole history of evolution our development regulated just with this two tools - reward & punishment in any performance. Just when any primitive organism doing some choice, when it don't know right answer, on a primitive level it's always choice from two values - "yes" or "no". And there always been groups, that made right and wrong choice. In primitive times wrong choice was reason of death. And that's how natural selection is going. And that's why I think that why I think that modern human been is perfect as itself for any present condition.
Actually everything is balance between two opposite position of one objects. For example, as we now all material things consists on primitive level just from two elements - protones and neutrons. Ofc this is not the most primitive elements of any material objects, but no matter how deep will we go, in any other primitive level we will find same dualism.
Actually all digital information, that u see around u. Starting from what u see and hear from tv and everything u see in computer game or on the screen of your phone, is sequence of "1" and "0" on primitive level.
So returning to human level we could say, that this is a system, any cell of what have it's unique purpose, that concluded in storage an information of right evolution choice in any situation.
And this is how selfeducating ai is really acting. It's investigating outer environment and storage right scenarios, and performing this scenarios in similar environment, where it was usefull before. During some iterations, system developing and starts to keep more memory for storage new scenarios.
From this, we could say, that every human been always acting only according to natural evolution program in dependency of environment he acting now. And returning to Hitler and others. No. I don't think, that if he didn't exist, we could avoid ww2. In that times there were all conditions for german society to find a man with similar to Hitler properties of mind and rewarded him with attention and power and ruled his behaviour to act like Hitler. Same as if Hitler was born in any african tribe, he couldn't make same destruction to the world.
That's why I accept any person. I understand that all of us was born with some unavoidable program inside. We can't change it, and prove of that is that all that behaviour experiments, we discussed earlier is always picture same results for most of society. And the fact that less part of society in any separate experiment don't show obedient behaviour is just means that in another time or in case of another tools they will obey too.
We can't avoid this mechanism, but if we understand it and accept we could try to cheat by assuring our brain, that we doing another act but with purpose that we need in real situation. Like sportsman could motivate himself by imaging, that he trying to survive against wild animal.
Sure, I have many thoughts and explains about that, but thats "short version" of my thoughts about the role of personality in historyю
Don't even want to read this wall of text, I've written now, cause it's still exploding my brains. But I'll try to write tomorrow another one great example, that follows this conception.
вы че парни ебанулись?
это выглядит как ручной вайп, лол.
знаю английский на семерочку, но от переписки так и веет духотой.
Ну, духота и духота, не мешай общаться. Наконец-то можно о чём-то сложнее "холина соснула" поговорить и даже без оскорблений.
>Maybe this is what u really kept in mind
Yeap, now I'm realising, that u kept in mind Putin's death, not individual thought about personal death. But anyway, this description on fatalistic behaviour (correct term, that I forgot yesterday) could explain undermine behaviour of full society. Cause if u understand that u can't change anything in your nation and understand, that it needs changes, some peoples could support destructive regimes, thinking, that could follow to sooner destruction of old formation.
Not everybody do it couse of powerlessness, majority stragles for any sort of meaning or purpose, no life defining ideology, that would explain every question you'll ever gave, no goverment structure, that wiil always think of you and tell that to do, no commune with people to care about you, just misery and poverty. GenX suffers tge most of it, raised for live in USSR they saw it crumble just about they adult live begun. Millennials and Zomers got it much better.
bump
I was about to correct that yesterday, but now I'm somewhat convinced that the error was meant to be. After you adding the explanation, it's more complete now. I should've thought that more myself in the first place, the destructive mentality also, so thanks for the correction.
I'll get around your texts as a whole, and this will be somewhat chaotic also. Try to bare with me till the end, I'll try to entangle my vision into yours.
>If u r living in society of plenty
I'd like to add one point here which came to my mind, about happiness study. Have you heard of African tribe called Masai? I've heard about study, where the happiness (subjective well being) of 400 most rich people of USA was compared to Masai (african tribe who may not even know what "money is." The study's results were that they were equally happy. Such as it has been found from studies about lottery winner's happiness, that after the short burst "peak" right after winning, the people won't be on average any happier than they were before.
Money won't make anyone happy. It's a cliche, but it seems to be true, after the basic needs of human being are being satisfied. This also explains why people with materialistic values find themselves trapped, because "need" is always a matter of subjective definition. If you feel like you need more, you will never be happy. Now think of the irony in this. The USA's most richest have found themselves to be as happy, as people of Masai tribe, only after they've gotten enough money to buy basically anything they could ever want in the world. Hunger grows when you are eating, you know?
This might also explain why there's groups of power hungry people, who have motifs bigger than money. The money didn't satisfy them, but maybe the power would. Is the hunger for power ever satisfied? And how do you feel fulfillment, content? It has been said, that the end goal of capitalism is colonialism. Empiricalism goes to same bin, even tho the power of logic is more centered on ideology than money, but in the end they are both just a means for power.
The most dangerous people of modern people are the one's with a vision bigger than individual human life. Maybe powerful people ever feel content risking human lives, because what could be greater power, than power over life? If you think the symbolism in it, it is the direct opposite of being equal with another human being.
If the happiness study is being right, about the altruistic & selfless behavior, and communality making people the happiest, how can one achieve this without love? I think it's impossible. Psychopaths and narcissistic people are pathologically unable to love. Maybe the world we live in, is the direct consequence of world's most powerful people trying to satisfy their inner trap. Think of Hitler for example. Could it just be, that what he was trying to project from his people, was love. Something that he always missed from his life. I want also to point out, that only after his vision was totally crushed, he married Eva Braun. Why is that?
The history tolds us that he wanted to present himself as being "married" to German's people, and that's why needed to be single. Maybe it wasn't just "stupid" excuse for propaganda purposes. Maybe he really meant it, because in his distorted world, power over world = substitute for love. Maybe the moment he realized that there is absolutely _nothing_ left of his vision, his ego had no change but to die. And only after that, he found love right besides him. The possibility for it had existed for a long time before, but only after total ego death the trap was broken.
Maybe in this sense it comes more apparent, why most empathetic people only rarely go for politics. It's not only that they probably wouldn't do too good in that environment, but also because they have no need for power. They are already satisfied by loving, and being loved. They are already in different kind of trap. (Heh.) Being in love, one's ego is already more powerless. It has already divided, or unified with another being. It is fulfilled.
Maybe this logic also comes close to Ruskis as people. You said that you've had no change to hold on material things, because your culture is full of history losing it all too fast, making Ruskis soulful and tough. Maybe that's the silver lining, of being ripped of power over one's life. That's how I see things thru my theory of everything, what centers on thought, that power of love = life. (I'm not talking about romantic love, but love in it's most possible broad sense.) All you need is to give life a change by environment, and it will grow. This goes for any organism, and if you think of the universe, and endless space & time (eternity), as long as there is a change for life, it will begin to manifest sooner or later. It will grow, and if you think of this growth, in the humane word, best word for that power is love. I might also want to add, that when you see a people robbing for their own survival, they are acting of love (self-love.) It allows people to act even vicious ways, when their existence is threatened. In this sense, even in the most dark situation we can see love manifesting itself into life. It's securing and protecting the individual, and offering continuation.
This all also relates to this explanation. You just said it in terms of IT-engineer/physicist/evolution science. Besides the creative power, you also explained the destructive power. If you remove one leg from the table, it's incomplete. If human being is unable to love, the worldview becomes distorted, and it starts to manifest as destruction. I think this is also a risk in the most totalitarian societies. People losing their vision, and adopting their leader's vision, which is distorded, it might seek for love to happen through act of destruction. It is the _cancer_ of the world. And it will keep growing, if people give it a change.
That being said, I agree with what you said about ww2 would've happened even without Hitler. But is there a cure for it, other than people coming back to self consciousness, and losing their leaders vision? What must happen before that comes to be true?
I understand that thoughts like this might be impossible to understand fully, because life contains alot of paradoxes and is chaotic, which is part of this everything. (I kinda instantly knew that your explanation is going to get deep, because of you saying disclaimer for this before hand.) :)
This brings to my mind where are we going next. What makes the Putin's vision complete? I view him as the world's most dangerous man at the very moment. But if it's true, that leader's manifest the opportunities provided by people's will & changes offered by environment - what should we expect from Ruskis? Do you think that they could be brought to WW3 by their own will? Germans were fooled.
I might also want to point out that if the authoritarian leader gets too much power, even to manipulate people's vision, could the history be then somewhat determined by factors of personal psychology after all? And what does this mean for future? Is Putin's hunger determined by Russian people? And even if it was, he can manipulate the vision to some extent. In some sense, he is creating more power for himself, the more the people trust his vision, which he controls by himself. What stops the hunger? I think I'm getting more fearful for what we see happening in Ukraine. Because it might not satisfy Putin, but instead create more hungriness. This might happen in either case: him getting not love from his people, or his people growing even more fond of his vision.
I think before I told you about one definition of fascism. Ultranationalism & totalitarism combined with the seek to regain the past glory. When this comes together with the possible cultural trauma, dissatisfaction deep in the roots of people. If you think of this set & setting for possible scenarios,.. I hope and pray to be wrong, but I just have this weird feeling about future which is about to take place - I can't even fully put it into exact words. All I know is that this man should be stopped. Actually thru series of all this talk, my fear is getting only stronger, because now I've understood that it's not prolly realistic for Ruskis to stop him either.
Btw, not a funny thing (and not sure if I told about this before already), but one Finnish artist group (Ruger Hauer) recorded an album "Ukraina" (Ukraine in Finnish) in 2013. Yes, 2013, before events of Euromaidan. It tells about the end of the world taking place, being apolyptical in theme. The scary part here is, that some people were kinda "wtf" about the name of the album and everything, it didn't make much sense in 2013.
Only now it makes much more sense. Idk what to think of it.
>Don't you how you country came to be ?
If I've gotten it right, Swedish inquisition burned much of our written history, in the times of "de-paganization." So we can only guess. There exist a Finnish myth that the world came from the egg of a bluepill (bird), so maybe we came from there, but idk if that's exactly true. :)
Lenin admitted us independence from Russia 1918. But no, we haven't ever been exactly Ruskis. We were once conquered by Russia tho. And no, we haven't been exactly Swedish either. By conquering something people don't turn into conquerors, if they lack the will for it.
I might also want to add, that if you go down long enough in history, there could be Scandinavian & Finnish blood in you. Check who were the first of the "Rus."
I'm not expert of this field tho, so I shouldn't probably continue the history lesson any longer. :)
>we did it twice in 20th century.
What went wrong? I might point out that you might not want to ditch the idea of it forever, if it doesn't go well in the beginning. For some the road is more rockier than others.
We aren't being taught that much of Russia's history in school. There exists so much studying in our own history already. Tbh this thread has been one big eye opener for me, in all-things-Russian.
>Majority supports it
Does there exist a different option to support?
>Don't understand the concept.
Basically, it's a thought experiment where you imagine yourself being born to society, but you cannot know beforehand, how you will be born. Will you be a woman or man, will you be healthy or not, will you have high iq or low iq, are you member of some minority, etc., is unknown to you. And by that context (not knowing the premises), you try to picture the society where you would like to live. Ideally, it should create a picture of equally fair society which tries to take notion the meaning of different backgrounds etc.
>There is only genocide as a solution
That doesn't sound too good.
>progressive tatar would probably kill me
By "reds" you mean communists, right? We have Tatars aswell btw. Here they are viewed as an example of successful immigration. But I must admit, if there existed millions of them, the outcome could very well be different, and I couldn't rule out that we wouldn't have similar problems.
And look, I'm not here to tell how you should live, it's for Ruskis to decide by themselves. But I'm pretty sure there could exist better solutions that what we see now.
I hope you get hold of even something I wrote btw, I think this has turned into proper brainstorm, and the thoughts can be kinda high-flying. Don't necessarily expect it to be completely rational, without accepting possible paradoxes. So just keep on reading and see what you can scrape of off it after you've read it (maybe in it's full context it opens bit more.)
I might also return to to chew on your theory of everything later on. It's brain tickling.
I remember this quote from Putin "Anyone who says he wants CCCP back doesn't have brain, and anyone who says he doesn't miss it doesn't have heart."
This is weird to think that there's nostalgy associated to it, because from the outside world CCCP is easily pictured as horror and misery (war, gulags, violence, etc.) There must've existed something good about it also? Wanna explain how does older people remember it?
And then again, isn't it the young people who want to get out of Russia the most atm?
I may be going to sleep soon, so I'll get back to you guys tomorrow ASAP I have spare time. Good night!
>Lenin admitted us independence from Russia 1918
In you history lesson that is the only passage that was asked, considering we were talking about 20th century and that was then you country gain independence. But actually simple "Yeah" would surfice, you small nations have some sort of the complex about you ligitemesy, then asked simplest of question, often rhetorical, about history and you always go on tireid how special you are. It is just cringe and not because you are not special or unic.
>there could be Scandinavian & Finnish blood in you
Scandinavian ? Maybe. Finnish ? No. Uraloids got very distinct feachers that I don't possess. But I've seen a lot of you kind, yeah.
>What went wrong?
First time around Temporary Goverment ligalized communism and announced general amnesty. Then they lost control, and many republican forses lost the Civil War. The Second time some on the incide of the CK and further down the party line figure out that communism suckes and they will be better off without it, so they end it. But just so they wouldn't be out on the streets in new Russia they privatiesed all to themself and then started treated Russia like a corporation.
>Does there exist a different option to support?
Yes, as always.
>Basically, it's a thought experiment where you imagine yourself being born to society, but you cannot know beforehand, how you will be born.
Oh, the role playing. Don't really understand how is this academic, but i understand the concept. I wiil act accordingly to my character personalaty, class, alignment etc.
>By "reds" you mean communists, right?
I do.
>There must've existed something good about it also? Wanna explain how does older people remember it?
I sort of already did higher, but if i has to repeat myself-they miss totalitarian state with absolut post-christian dogma, there the first would tell you everything to do in life and method to do it up until the day you dead, and second would explained how it is the greatest thing ib the world, and any other way is wrong, and every struggle is temperary and yours children, who would of course live under true communism, wouldn't know this straggel. And yes, for most it was the greatest way to live, uncertainty and lonelyness of the modern world does exactly thrill them. It is doesn't exactly thrill the rest of the modern world either, so i think it an easy thing to understand.
>And then again, isn't it the young people who want to get out of Russia the most atm?
Everybody do, Putin wanted to btw. Modern Russia have no hope.
>How's the world looking today?
Что тебе до мира в России? Ты живешь в Финляндии. Вы вряд ли пострадаете, правда, если твои политики не будут публично желать вступить в НАТО, вести себя агрессивно и создать свою армию. Если они будут об этом говорить, то Пыня забеспокоится.
>Are we taking any steps towards better tomorrow?
От нас ничего не зависит. Ни от простых русских граждан, ни от простых украинцев, ни от граждан любой другой страны. Пыня военную машину тоже не остановит. В ней сидит много людей. Две армии на данный момент сражаются, вовлекая в соучастие всех. Простым людям не известны их конкретные планы. Но пока они не достигнуты с конкретным результатом, они вряд ли остановятся.
For crying out loud, go back to fucking ylilauta, you cringe sperg.
bump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkuAfaC0X20
Putin has lost his mind. He doesn't understand that Russia is not him, it's more than him. People in the west doesn't want to destroy Russia. Russian people who oppose this meaningless war and destruction of their country are not unpatriotic people.
Putin is the one who is deeply unpatriotic. He is just destroying Russia and sacrificing russian people for sake of his own twisted world view.
Putin has lost his mind. He doesn't understand that Russia is not him, it's more than him. People in the west doesn't want to destroy Russia. Russian people who oppose this meaningless war and destruction of their country are not unpatriotic people.
Putin is the one who is deeply unpatriotic. He is just destroying Russia and sacrificing russian people for sake of his own twisted world view.
Castrate all shitskins
hey finnish guy
we cant stop the war
if i go and protest, i will be fined and/or beaten by siloviki
i already deleted my profile from vk bcs tov. major
i only can hope defending country will win and there will be future for our country if pynya fails/die
your sincerely, rostov-on-don kun
Finland, the time has come! Capture Karjala! :DDDD
>I've heard about study, where the happiness (subjective well being) of 400 most rich people of USA was compared to Masai (african tribe who may not even know what "money is." The study's results were that they were equally happy.
I didn't heard about that one, but ofc I read about same investigations. And it't all relate to my theory about programmed human mind. It's all about hormones, that rewarding us for achieving another one evolutional scenario. This hormones don't become more quality if it's extracted with more money.
But this is one of the most dangerous thing, that helped me to drop using some drugs and smoking maryjane. I realised, that not only level of happiness matters. But mostly important to achiving it by more complicated way. Cause in first way, U achiving it only for yourself, but in second way, u learning how to share your happiness with more people. And yes, when u help to another peoples to become more happy, u get power under this peoples. Next level is to use this power in useful way. Because, Hitler got his power by making german peoples to become more happy, by convincing them that they are superior race. And power could be not only destructive, but also constructive. Depends on for what purposes u use in. In project management describing few types of power, that leader of any professional group could have. If u'r smart expirienced engineer, your power under other engineers in working group would be constructive and follows to useful results.
The thing that could help u to use your power in constructive way os your goal of life (period of life) and principles, that u achived by your experience. Ofc I could spent my life just for collecting as much as possible money, by cheating other peoples, using dirty capitalistic tools and then give all that money to my kids. But I have good enough strategical mind and I understand, that it will make destructive society, in what my kids will live in future. And after all, they could become victims of that society even with a lot of money. If u want a bright example, u can google "Stalin's american granddaughter". I mean, if u don't have experience of creative and smart way of getting money and invest them, then noone other will teach it your kids. You'r just cursing them to live in paradigm "hunter - victim". And if u were powerful enough to be always hunter in this game, they wouldn't be same hard all their life.
> power over world = substitute for love
Yes and no. Actually, I already described, how any primitive organisms become more survival by connecting with another, that have useful tool for surviving in concrete environment. So we can say, that relationships is one of the most powerful evolutional scenario that we have. The mechanism, that we call love between man and women is one of the most simple demostration of that mechanism. But simple not in meaning "primitive", but in meaning "basic". Peoples mind actually thinking by models. That's why level of happiness in primitive tribe could be same as in modern megapolis. For your brain u just getting a little more resources for surviving, don't matter of what type is it. And successful relationship with one human been could be a prove that u can successfully relate to any group of peoples, that is marker of your power. I think, that in your example, Hitler instinctively understood, that he was wrong, when decided he already have real power to any groups of peoples, and by this act he wanted to achieve another higher form of relationships with society. Just like selfdestruction and suicide for somebody becomes the only available form of changing in their life as a symbol of destructing any undesirable circumstances in surrounded world.
>What must happen before that comes to be true?
Same, as I already noticed in this thread before. Technical progress, that help us to remove borders and to unite, depending just of our personal principles, that could be same for anyone in other world. War now not going between Russian and Ukraine. It's going between peoples with old logic (rough and material) and new one. And from the description follows, that new vision of life will win anyway. Problem is that it can win through a lot of victims. But if it will be, I don't worry about it. Because u asked very important thing:
>could the history be then somewhat determined by factors of personal psychology after all?
As we already concluded, ww2 was unavoidable, because all german society (and other world too. cause Stalin wanted this war not less, then Hitler) acted like a solid organism, that wants to destroy modern world order, that humiliated them after ww1. And I'm sure that all global process is consequence of activity of all levels of society, involved in this process. Just as when u see quality table, u know that all parts of it was made for that table to become quality. It means, that any global conflict becomes only when all parts, involved in it becomes ready for it. We just relieved very specific moment of modern history - pandemic. And during this pandemic, we gone through many new social and financial transformations. And the war is another one human side, that needs to be transformed. But to know what and how it must be transformed we must relieve it. This is our sacrifice for better life of future generations.
>Ruger Hauer
but it's funny for me, cause this is the inly finn artist I had in my old rap playlist. I remember just that it was a kind of rough social rap. But I mostly liked them for that hard style. I think that northern nations, like Finns and our part of Russia, prefer hard styles, cause it helps us to keep our mind in some more agressive zone, that we need to reliving hard climate conditions.
And yes. Some artists really better feel this transition moments of history on the earliest stages. Cause they not concentrate just on material picture, but see smallest changes of peoples behaviour, that will follow to new behaviour of full society.
Another Finn here. I feel like everything is fucked. With the amount of russophobia that has spawned after the invasion, it seems like WW3 is inevitable.
I don't own a TV, so I don't know what they say there. But in all news outlets and social media it's just Ukrainian propaganda. The tide has turned. People are calling for politicians to resign if they don't support NATO. It actually seems like the people in charge understand what's going on and are stalling, but the masses want to plant a US flag before Russia invades us next.
But the mood around the coffee table at work or in sauna with friends is different. Most people just want to avoid confrontation. Personally I think the reality is a small nation bordering a big nation can't do what it wants. Realpolitik. It worked well 1945-1991. Why not now?
I'm especially disgusted with the attitude I see on message boards - that we should join NATO tomorrow and imprison all Russians living here now. Everything is fucked. We're all going to die in a nuclear apocalypse.
I just want to live in peace. We need to accept reality.
I don't own a TV, so I don't know what they say there. But in all news outlets and social media it's just Ukrainian propaganda. The tide has turned. People are calling for politicians to resign if they don't support NATO. It actually seems like the people in charge understand what's going on and are stalling, but the masses want to plant a US flag before Russia invades us next.
But the mood around the coffee table at work or in sauna with friends is different. Most people just want to avoid confrontation. Personally I think the reality is a small nation bordering a big nation can't do what it wants. Realpolitik. It worked well 1945-1991. Why not now?
I'm especially disgusted with the attitude I see on message boards - that we should join NATO tomorrow and imprison all Russians living here now. Everything is fucked. We're all going to die in a nuclear apocalypse.
I just want to live in peace. We need to accept reality.
We need to fucking kill the old fuck from the bunker.
Also, nuklear war may look very possible, but it's just an illusion. We, humans, fucking survived Carribean and Berlin crisises. It will be alright.
> It actually seems like the people in charge understand what's going on and are stalling, but the masses want to plant a US flag before Russia invades us next.
Are your people became absolutely blunt after last 30 years of brainwashing and don't understand such a simple thing, that the only guarantee of your country independence and well being is neutrality?
Absolutely same feeling. I just want back fucking peace and normal life. Fuck this conflict, it's not my war, it's someone else's.
Regular people don't experience that amount of xenophobia, although they often say that US threatens us and Ukraine threatens Russians in contested territories, whether they just repeat propaganda or truly believe this, no idea.
Good morning Ruskis! Everything allrite? How's it going? Any news?
Sorry for taking so long, had a busy day yesterday. I'll be answering all of you^ ASAP!
Sorry for taking so long, had a busy day yesterday. I'll be answering all of you^ ASAP!
Our beloved Supreme leader will address the nation in about six hours(although he seldom starts on time).
We are eagerly awaiting his glorious words. Mothers groom children, s o they will be sparkling, while watching his highness on TV.
Today we also celebrate the day of return of Crimea. Yet another glorious day is starting for Empire!
Hello. For better understanding just use deepl, he's good at understanding slang and go outside your paddock
Hi, bro! You'd better open a new thread, cause on this board it stops to going on top after 500th post and will disappear in 10-14 hours.
I may loose my job, and how are you ?
>that not only level of happiness matters
Actually this is something that psychoanalysis has always been claiming: People don't necessarily want to be happy in the end. Even if they pursuit for it, they later or sooner gonna fuck it up - by themselves. (All tho I fully realize it's up to debate, should we even trust psychoanalytical as a science. And by saying this I don't mean to undermine it's capability in explaining human mind, which has seemingly irrational powers aswell.)
Idk if you've noticed, but this is sounding alot like Zlavoj Zizek. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U88jj6PSD7w
Maybe happiness should be viewed more as a basis to fuck up in life. I mean, wouldn't it be kinda logical? That's the point in your life when you possibly have the most resources (all the basic needs are probably filled and you feel safe) to take the risk, and even suffer.
>And power could be not only destructive, but also constructive
"The ability to make others act for your benefit", or "the ability to affect." I agree that it can be constructive, you can see it in every healthy organization. But looking things thru the narssistic-leadership theory, that's when going gets ruff. If people are deeply unsatisfied in a pathological way, and try to find fulfillment for their life in politics, the going might get rough. This is shortly what I meant. I'm not saying that every leader is like that, but there is a huge change of the most psychopathic personalities seeking for power. I think some of it can be also explained by the extreme need for love to be reflected from the environment, because the publicity and power both make up for ideal environment to satisfy them. I'll come back to this later.
>Stalin's american granddaughter
I gotta tell on the side note: I've seen this happening in life alot. People coming the exact opposite of their parents. I've seen a top lawyer rise two kids, both becoming criminals. I've also heard about a prison guard, whose two daughters both married an ex-con.
Maybe it comes apparent, as an evolution mechanics. We feel the mistakes of our parents (sometimes we suffer from them), and as a result we start to oppose them. It only makes sense from the perspective of evolution. We try to make their mistakes right, creating a better changes for our species to survive. (Btw, funny side note for a side note: nowadays, there is some evidence that animals can have already in their DNA the "lessons learned from our parents.")
>that relationships is one of the most powerful evolutional scenario that we have
Aye. That's right. But evolutional psychology can imho explain the social life to only some extent, mostly the mechanics of it, such as the hormones. The most basic of the questions of social life: "What bonds people?", Georg Simmel asked this more than 150 years ago, and it is still being thought today. And yes, I realize it is easy to explain it all from the evolutionary perspective, but I'm not fully satisfied with the explanation. What I find fascinating about this, is that every possible organism seems to be actively finding their counterpart, and more; everything wants, or needs, to connect. It's the essence of nature, which we see also manifesting in humans, but not only humans, but in everything that lives. Besides that, we continue to create better and better web, a connection between people, and news form for it. There has to be a word for that universal power, maybe even love is a wrong and undermining term, but as a humans it's hard to figure out term for the concept. Creativity is only a means or manifestation for it. Maybe in this sense the concept of love comes closer to concept of creation of new life - the essence of life. (Sorry if I get too messed up here, my field of science ain't exactly the most logical ones, so I'm destined to seek the answers chaotically.)
>Just like selfdestruction and suicide for somebody becomes the only available form of changing in their life as a symbol of destructing
One of the explanations I've heard about rational psychology: "Suicide is a humanbeing making a calculation about his expected value of future life. When it turns negative, people will kill themselves." Could this then be scaled to societal level also? Us manifesting into destructive power to change our surroundings, even if it meant alot of death. But can we also activate the destructive powers, when it's not even needed? And can the destructive powers be eliminated or suppressed, when they are needed the most?
>Hitler instinctively understood, that he was wrong
It has been speculated, that Hitler's ultimate plan was never to win, but to destroy as much as possible. If you look at the path he chose, any rational humanbeing could've made the calculation "this isn't going to end well." He muted all the people around him, who opposed him, as if he didn't even want to hear them, and actually he walked thru the path of destruction using a lot of resources for no one to stop him. It was like his surroundings was yelling him to stop, but he chose otherwise. Atleast on subconscious level he must've understood how it's all going down. (Btw: I would pay alot to know how, what kind of dreams did he see. I'd be curious to know.)
>And the war is another one human side, that needs to be transformed.
When it comes to pandemics btw, there was this one roman emperor (can't exactly remember his name, I'll try to check it out later) who thought that plagues is natural and inseparable part of politics (back in the days they were more near and familiar.)
Maybe it is just so, that in the end, even the most destructive parts, such as wars, is a strive to make things right. A natural strive for perfection, which we cannot stop, if environment has evolved into wrong direction, for us not to be satisfied. Maybe it's our subconscious manifesting, trying to find new forms, which cannot exist without destruction of old. It is actually a somewhat soothing & comforting as a thought.
>This is our sacrifice for better life of future generations.
I hope you are right, and we better make it worth it, if this situation evolves into full blown WW3. Then again, imho we shouldn't undermine the possibility of us becoming enslaved. I cannot fully rule out the possibility of totalitarianism taking over. What if the new vision ain't always winning, but the one, that has most destructive power? Can we be, in the end, be enslaved for all eternity? It's a scary thought.
Ofc one could ask, should we be. Have you heard about "ecological fasism?" Thesis of Pentti Linkola put into short: humankind is so fucking hopeless, that it needs a powerful central power to stop us from destroying the planet. This same guy thought that "placing cyanide in the tap water lines in Dubai could be thought as a great environmental act." :D
Ruger Hauer is one of my favorites, when I'm on that exact mood. It is actually funny how you described it - seems like the old cliche is true of music being an international language. The first album's name "Se syvenee syksyllä" = "It deepens in the fall/autumn." (meaning the emotions which arise when the summer is over, and the winter gets more and more under your skin.)
Got ya! Making a new one.
Continuation thread: !
Perfect! I'll answer u later in new thread.
What's up? Wanna talk politics or should I just fuck off? o_o Had to leave for work/studies and then my thread was already deleted when I came back.
How's the world looking today? Are we taking any steps towards better tomorrow?
Also can you please stop the war already, I don't want to join NATO and go to fight somewhere in Somalia ffs.